The Gibson L4c aka Zeppo Marx

[omphalopsychos]

Some of the music I've been playing lately has come to require an archtop with a cutaway.

Let's start with a photo so you know I'm not full of BS.


Or if you're Rob MacKillop, it might look like this.



It looks like a 175 because it essentially is. This guitar came out the same year as the 175. The two are identical except for one thing. The L4c has a solid spruce top. Very few L4cs were manufactured (I think less than a thousand were made in the 50s). Why? Well it wasn't a huge success like the 175 was. The L4c was designed as a lower-end acoustic, with laminate back and sides. While the cutaway proved to be the correct path forward for Gibson 16"ers, this guitar didn't make a huge splash among acoustic players. Those who did play it typically equipped it with a DeArmond FHC. Acoustically it has a pretty bright tone, but a good one. Plugged in, it has a very different quality from the 175. While the 175 has a focused, direct voice that sounds unambiguously electric, the L4c has a much more acoustic quality. It doesn't "thunk" like the 175. Instead it has a bit more sustain and much more harmonic content (which is partially a function of pickup choice).

"Well, why not get a 175?" you ask. Well, I'm not going for a 175 tone! I've played both, and I love the 175 (owned one for a week), but I don't need another instrument with p90s to slap flatwounds on. Plug in the L4c and you get a very crisp and complex sound, better in my opinion for contemporary styles (think Rotem Sivan, Gilad Hekselman, Teemu Viinikainen), but with a distinguished vintage vibe. It also works great for solo guitar. One wonderful benefit of the L4c over a 175 is that you can roll back the volume and tone and comp rhythm chords because this *is* an acoustic guitar after all.

I went back and forth on pickup choices. With an FHC, this guitar kicks ass for blues, bebop, and western swing. Especially with flatwounds... Oh my god. But with a Rhythm Chief, you get "all this harmonic stuff" (to quote the ever-eloquent Bill Frisell). Warm and detailed, just perfect. It has a complex and natural tone, that tone that only the Rhythm Chief has. There's not a ton going on in the bass, but RC has plenty of midrange fullness. This makes it a perfectly complement to the L4c: you can turn it up to play with a band and it doesn't get too much feedback.

The 50s gibson neck is phenomenal. I'm playing it with (you guessed it) Philippe Bosset 13s with a 14 and 18 for the trebles. I keep the action low, so it's quite playable.

Here are some interesting clips. Unfortunately I haven't recorded anything with it and may not for a while, this guitar is more for playing with a band than playing solo. Maybe I'll do one of those backing track videos.

Here's a guy talking about the L4c and the 175.

Here's a guy playing the L4c with an FHC.

Same guy, different L4c. Still FHC.

Now here's a guy playing the non-cutaway L4 with a Rhythm Chief. Such a cool and natural but electric sound. Modern and vintage sound in one. Just utterly unique. I'm happy to say the L4c gets this tone just as well.

One thing I love about the acoustic-ness of the tone of the L4c compared to the 175 is that the RC and the solid top make the amplified tone much less compressed (duh, given that it sounds more acoustic). The result is something with much more dynamic range. Obviously Teemu's technique is a huge contributor to this, but listen to how well the guitar is able to keep up with variances in picking intensity.

It's an awesome guitar. You should get one.

[Stringswinger]

Congrats on a fine vintage Gibson archtop. May she inspire your playing for many years to come.

[Doctor Jeff]

Beautiful guitar--has lots of character.

Love the tone that Teemu gets--I understand what you mean by vintage yet modern.

I have the RC on a vintage Harmony, and while not as nice as the Gibson, it does provide a distinct sound from my other set-in HB archtops.

Wondering if the solid spruce top is carved or pressed on the Gibson?

[omphalopsychos]

Wondering if the solid spruce top is carved or pressed on the Gibson?

Good question! I'm also curious now.

[Papawooly]

Very nice!!

I also have an L4.. a '51 L4CN (one of 49 made that year)
very sweet sounding, with a ton of sustain.
easy to play, weighs about 1 ounce

It is however, too quiet to compete as one of my main "couch guitars" but does sound pretty
sweet with its Dearmond "Guitar Mic".

I think I put Monel's on it, but may slap on a set of Phillipe-Bosset soft brass like the OP

[vinnyv1k]

Good question! I'm also curious now.

It is carved.

[omphalopsychos]

It is carved.

Good for me

[powerwagonjohn]

Nice guitar! I have a 1952 L-4 with a RC1000 and I agree it's a nice tone I get out of that guitar. A bit electric, a bit acoustic and just perfect. I have noticed that the L-4 is not as loud or aggressive, acoustically as my Epiphone Zephyr which is a very similar guitar.
Thanks John

[omphalopsychos]

Almost forgot. This is what it looked like with an FHC. Looks pretty mean that way, I like it.

[citizenk74]

That's a beautiful instrument with a lot of vibe. Congratulations, and play it in good health!

[tonyp145]

I like the L-4C, it works well for swing but not as well for gypsy jazz (not enough acoustic volume). I couldn't get on with the 50s Gibson neck even though I put way too much money into it (refret and Plek, new unbleached bone nut, new repro tuners, new tail piece, slight shave of the neck into a soft V). I finally gave up and bought myself a late 60s L-7C which has a bit more acoustic volume but, more importantly, a much thinner neck.

The L-4C is currently on consignment at Emerald City Guitars in Seattle. Here's a link if anybody is interested:

1958 Gibson L-4C | Emerald City Guitars

[omphalopsychos]

I like the L-4C, it works well for swing but not as well for gypsy jazz (not enough acoustic volume). I couldn't get on with the 50s Gibson neck even though I put way too much money into it (refret and Plek, new unbleached bone nut, new repro tuners, new tail piece, slight shave of the neck into a soft V). I finally gave up and bought myself a late 60s L-7C which has a bit more acoustic volume but, more importantly, a much thinner neck.

The L-4C is currently on consignment at Emerald City Guitars in Seattle. Here's a link if anybody is interested:

1958 Gibson L-4C | Emerald City Guitars

A good price! thank you for sharing.

[Max405]

Omph,
Sorry I missed this.
It must be a great guitar. I'm happy for you man.
I must challenge you on the point you made about this guitar not being a solo guitar. You can make this guitar do anything. The old wood has a dimension of sound that is probably really special. If you play something with some air in it, you will hear what I mean.
Does it have the skinny frets? It doesn't look like it from the pics.
Lots of Luck. Enjoy the guitar and thanks for sharing.
JD

[omphalopsychos]

Thanks Joe. Just to be clear I didn’t say it’s not good for solo, just that I’d prefer my others for solo since there is more depth to their tone. The guitar is a bit bright, but in the best way that you need when playing with others. However you’ve inspired me to give it another shot for chord melody. Hell if I can play chord melody on a telecaster I shouldn’t call this one too bright. You are right about the tone of the wood. It’s been opening up a bit over the past weeks. I like to turn the amp down enough that I hear the acoustic and electric tones. This guitar loves my modded Princeton reissue. It’s got skinny frets, but they’re not very worn down. It doesn’t look like it was refretted so I can assume it’s just been a bit of a princess. Well it’s no longer a princess in my hands! It’s already come with me to several rehearsals and will be coming to two gigs this month.

[John A.]

I have to challenge the title of the thread a little bit -- The underappreciated twin of the ES 175, the Lee to his brother George, is the ES 295. The L4 is more Cinderella to the the the L5 and Super 400's Anastasia and Drizella.

Other than that, happy NGD.

John

[Rob MacKillop]

I've just caught this thread too. Om, that's a good choice for an amplified, gig-ready guitar with an acoustic archtop feel. You've been splashing the cash of late, but on real-good-quality specific guitars, wisely chosen. I think you've done well. Have fun with it!

Also, thanks for the b&w photo! That made me relax

[omphalopsychos]

You've been splashing the cash of late, but on real-good-quality specific guitars, wisely chosen.

To be clear about my financial dispensation, I've been selling off instruments faster than I've been buying them, which is a good thing for me musically as well as financially. I just sold my Eastman and the Triumph is tentatively being sold to a member. I'm contemplating selling my X braced L7, too. Between my 16" L7 and Walnut Broadway, I think my acoustic archtop needs are totally covered.

So for those of you who follow my posts and know where I live, there's not as much to steal from my property as you think!

[Rob MacKillop]

Me too. I only have three instruments these days. I have to sell more than I buy. Such is life.

[Max405]

That's great stuff. Original frets, Oh my god. Its still a baby!
Lots of Luck with it.
I grew up on a blond one with the extra pickup. It was 53.
Joe D

Thanks Joe. Just to be clear I didn’t say it’s not good for solo, just that I’d prefer my others for solo since there is more depth to their tone. The guitar is a bit bright, but in the best way that you need when playing with others. However you’ve inspired me to give it another shot for chord melody. Hell if I can play chord melody on a telecaster I shouldn’t call this one too bright. You are right about the tone of the wood. It’s been opening up a bit over the past weeks. I like to turn the amp down enough that I hear the acoustic and electric tones. This guitar loves my modded Princeton reissue. It’s got skinny frets, but they’re not very worn down. It doesn’t look like it was refretted so I can assume it’s just been a bit of a princess. Well it’s no longer a princess in my hands! It’s already come with me to several rehearsals and will be coming to two gigs this month.

[Danny W.]

I've posted these before, from 1966 and 1967:





Danny W.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Thanks Joe. Just to be clear I didn’t say it’s not good for solo, just that I’d prefer my others for solo since there is more depth to their tone. The guitar is a bit bright, but in the best way that you need when playing with others. However you’ve inspired me to give it another shot for chord melody. Hell if I can play chord melody on a telecaster I shouldn’t call this one too bright. You are right about the tone of the wood. It’s been opening up a bit over the past weeks. I like to turn the amp down enough that I hear the acoustic and electric tones. This guitar loves my modded Princeton reissue. It’s got skinny frets, but they’re not very worn down. It doesn’t look like it was refretted so I can assume it’s just been a bit of a princess. Well it’s no longer a princess in my hands! It’s already come with me to several rehearsals and will be coming to two gigs this month.

It can be hard to tell how an archtop is going to sound on a first play. When I first got my ‘46 Emperor, it hadn’t been played in almost 40 years. It was amazingly stiff on the first play. It took it a
Good three weeks of playing every day before it opened up enough for me to know what it actually sounded like.

[omphalopsychos]

It can be hard to tell how an archtop is going to sound on a first play. When I first got my ‘46 Emperor, it hadn’t been played in almost 40 years. It was amazingly stiff on the first play. It took it a
Good three weeks of playing every day before it opened up enough for me to know what it actually sounded like.

I'm noticing the difference over time, for sure. Yesterday I took it to a rehearsal with 1 piano, 2 drummers, two guitars. You know what? I played it acoustically about half the time and it could be heard (granted, we were in a pretty small practice room, like 15' X 10'). Must mean it's a great guitar or we have very polite drummers.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The Emperor literally changed on a daily basis. At first I wasn’t even sure it was going to be that great of an acoustic guitar. It’s definitely not a dog though. She can sing.

[Bluedawg]

I have the more modern version with an '88 L4 CES

It holds it's own with my 175 and my 17 inch CES archtops ... hard to decide which I like better

[jads57]

I imagine there's quite a tonal difference between the modern 2 p/up version.