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meh
Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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02-02-2018 05:45 PM
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Probably a good deal if you're in the market for a brand new CS Gibson these days. But with the market so saturated with so many great used Gibsons as well as other nice guitars, I'd never pay that price.
I think Gibson as well as a couple other makers have made some serious mistakes at pricing increases continually. Especially when it's a small and changing market.
It seems the newer players are interested in radically different guitars, like Strandberg and others who offer multi scale 6,7, and 8 strings. And that market is where it's headed. The older 1950's designs at the same time are being offered by Boutique Luthiers like Jack Briggs, Johan Gustavson, Matt Artinger,etc and chipping away the Historic, CS market as well.
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We might not be keen on all these solid bodies, but they will move them. Much bigger market for those guitars than there is for the hollows we love. CME is awesome.
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And they will sell all 4 of those Blonde L-5's. For guys like Vinny who only want new guitars, they are the best deal out there. Originally Posted by rolijen
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I am sorry I just don’t see a guitar as a monetary investment. I see it as a tool to make music. It is the same to me as the Mac torque wrench I use on my Harley. Yes I buy good tools.
Life is a quick ride. I am not wasting it worrying that I might lose a grand or 2 on a great guitar. I still am not frivolous.
I do not owe a dime to anyone. If I can’t pay cash I do not buy it.
I can’t put a price on enjoyment or a life pleasure. If it makes me happy it is worth a thinner wallet to me but that is just me.
We all have are own values. Yes if you are afraid of losing money definitely buy used guitars only.
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Seagulls need love too.
Call me a proud scavenger that preys on the scraps of the once great "used guitar" market. I've nothing against Vinny's remarks at all. Many on this forum have expressed judgements about those who buy used guitars to "flip" rather than to keep them for an undetermined amount of time, before later selling them, which what, then qualifies them to avoid being labeled a "Seagull"?
Being a "Seagull" is work, and comes with it inherit risk that a new buyer conveniently avoids. Does that not qualify the Seagull as being the braver of the two? And for that risk, hasn't a Seagull earned the right to any earnings acquired via the buy/sell of a guitar for the risk he made for his investment?
Are trusted dealers, offering wholesale for your trade, and charging retail for a purchase not the biggest "Seagulls" of them all?
Where is the labeling of these so called trusted dealers, who are assuredly in business to make a profit. And if you're a poor unsuspecting individual who lacks knowledge you can be and are taken advantage of. Where's the labeling of retailers who do this throughout all industry? Who has not bought a car and not paid way too much? Oh the ether!
But oh the outrage when one buys a guitar and soon flips it for a profit? How many of these CME guitars were purchased with the intent to play now and later to be sold on the used market at a higher price?
Something the 'labelers' haven't thought of.
Some smart people chose to flip guitars in order to afford an L5CES. Is this individual to be looked down upon because he didn't experience a windfall of his parents home or income by way of inheritance?
Who said one can't make music and money?
Or perhaps it's time to slow the roll with this labeling thing. Just a thought...
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They asked the guitarist how does he plan on making a million $$$$? He replied that's easy.............. start with 10 million $$$$$$
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Hey man, Seagulls are nice guitars, I'd play one. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Seagulls need love too.
Call me a proud scavenger that preys on the scraps of the once great "used guitar" market. I've nothing against Vinny's remarks at all. Many on this forum have expressed judgements about those who buy used guitars to "flip" rather than to keep them for an undetermined amount of time, before later selling them, which what, then qualifies them to avoid being labeled a "Seagull"?
Being a "Seagull" is work, and comes with it inherit risk that a new buyer conveniently avoids. Does that not qualify the Seagull as being the braver of the two? And for that risk, hasn't a Seagull earned the right to any earnings acquired via the buy/sell of a guitar for the risk he made for his investment?
Are trusted dealers, offering wholesale for your trade, and charging retail for a purchase not the biggest "Seagulls" of them all?
Where is the labeling of these so called trusted dealers, who are assuredly in business to make a profit. And if you're a poor unsuspecting individual who lacks knowledge you can be and are taken advantage of. Where's the labeling of retailers who do this throughout all industry? Who has not bought a car and not paid way too much? Oh the ether!
But oh the outrage when one buys a guitar and soon flips it for a profit? How many of these CME guitars were purchased with the intent to play now and later to be sold on the used market at a higher price?
Something the 'labelers' haven't thought of.
Some smart people chose to flip guitars in order to afford an L5CES. Is this individual to be looked down upon because he didn't experience a windfall of his parents home or income by way of inheritance?
Who said one can't make music and money?
Or perhaps it's time to slow the roll with this labeling thing. Just a thought...
Seagull Guitars
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I really need some help. This thread and forum have my head spinning. Ok so for the right price I keep saying I want an L5. I sure would rather have an 18 inch guitar super 4 but they will not be as cheap right?
Is this possible new or used. A sunburst L5 Wes, I do not need a bridge pick up for less than 5k that really has no issues? I would rather have an acoustic L5 but I just do not see that happening for less than $5k but of course it has to be a cutaway.
Finally have I lost my mind. If I buy this the D'angelico will not get played as much and I play maybe an hour a day. Has GAS gone to head and once I get one it will be less than expected.
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If you desire a reported new L5CES in natural for $7k with warranty that's what CME is offering. CME reportedly on has access to a few L5's. If you desire a Sunburst you have to turn to the market for a new L5 WesMo.
They're great guitars, I've owned 4 of them. And the fact the it's unknown when or if Gibson is going to be making L5CES' any more, or at what horrendous cost, $7k for a new one with warranty seems a good deal. I'm not a person who has to own a new guitar to be satisfied. We recently had a forum member purchase a like new L5WesMo for $5k. Other good buys are available on the market if one does a proper search. The $2k difference between the few CME L5's available at $7k, and other used L5's available for less, offers one peace of mind that they're willing to pay.
A wise man here once said: You pays your money and takes your chances.
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I have done best on higher end guitars when I bought used from someone I know and trust.
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Is the difference that a good dealer provides a service to the players (and to the makers for that matter)? A reputable dealer holds the manufacturer to quality control standards and provides the buyer with a large space in which to test and compare many instruments at leisure - whereas flippers on the used market generally don't provide any service to justify the profit?
Forgive me if I don't know how it all works, I haven't bought a guitar from a store in 15 years or so.
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[QUOTE=deacon Mark;842419]I really need some help. This thread and forum have my head spinning. Ok so for the right price I keep saying I want an L5. I sure would rather have an 18 inch guitar super 4 but they will not be as cheap right?
I suggest that you watch and wait. As 2bop said, another member here recently bought a stunning
L5 in red, which he had an eye on for some time, I think he paid $5k new.
My own new Ebony L5Wesmo sat in dealers for an age until the price eventually reduced to a tad over £5k
a great buy. My new Blonde 2013 L5CES was obtained by trading in several guitars plus £100 ,
both are keepers. I bought both without the intention of profit even if I had to sell. They are
incomparable and a joy to own and play.
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Listen, not that I have to defend "flippers" since I'm no longer in the guitar buying game. But anyone who buys a guitar, and later sells that guitar, must accurately describe what they're selling - Just like a dealer. Many reseller's, the term I prefer to use, provide a service to their guitars, invest money into their purchased guitars, doing repair work, getting them into a saleable condition. Now it's a buyers market, and to some like myself the market is no longer worth the risk to invest into prospective guitars for resell.
Dealers can provide after sell service because they have business fronts. That's no mark against a reseller. He's not in business. Heck, how many guitars here have made their way around to other members on this forum? Even a D'Angelico or two. Must we cry river because a dealer lost out on a sell? What service was provided from those resells? Uh a great guitar at a better price than could be had from a dealer - duh
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I am not blaming or attacking flippers. Just saying there's a ready explanation for why people generally look down on them as leaches (ie they are middlemen who take profit without adding value/service that would justify the profit). This doesn't have to be true of all, or even most, flippers in order for them to acquire a low reputation.
A flipper that works in high volume, lives by his reputation, accurately describes his inventory, allows for returns, performs set up work, etc... Is the same as a reputable online dealer. True enough.
It goes without saying that I'm not impugning your character, your past actions, or anyone else's. In a market, all voluntary transaction is fair game.
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That's the lowest I've seen for a L5CT. Nice looking guitar on the website. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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I didn't take your suggestions personally. One man's leech is another man's smart buyer. I'd not have owned 4 L5CES's without being a savvy buyer. The guitar market is always free for anyone to participate. Those that remained on the sidelines and passed on ridiculous buys made a choice too. As always, happy hunting Originally Posted by ibnrushd
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Well, speaking from my own and other people’s experiences, if you get something you don’t want then you will still want what you originally wanted. The only thing that will sound like an acoustic L5 is an acoustic L5, and the only thing that will sound like a Super 400 is a Super 400. So when you go from wanting a S400 to an acoustic L5 to a routed electric L5 that is a couple steps away from what you really want. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
I do think that some guitars you can get what you want with something else - I think that a good PM100, for example is just as good if not better than any non-vintage es-175 and some of the lawsuits will sound almost the same amplified. But when you get to the Super 400 and L5 these are very hard to copy. The Aria and some other lawsuit models get close but if you are looking for that acoustic sound then you will probably only be getting it from the real deal unless you are looking for an approximation.
If you are looking for an electric L5 sound then the Wes or a good CES is amazing. I have bought guitars since getting my L5 but really that has been for fun and my guitar search ended when I got the L5 - that is the sound I wanted and that is what I got. And I bought a lot of guitars before that chasing that sound, ending up with good instruments but not the sound I really wanted. And once you put the limitation of under 5k you cannot be that picky - yeah you’ll find them out there but you have to be vigilant. At least in terms of an L5...I have never seen a Super 400 under 5k but they might have been out there somewhere.
All that said, if you can get a good Wes for under 5k then you will have an amazing guitar that would end many people’s grail searches. But you have to decide if that is what you really want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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This is the best advice, personal experience I’ve seen all week. Thanks Rio. Truth spoken. Originally Posted by rio
Roli
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That's a gorgeous guitar! Someday I hope to be savvy enough or just dumb -lucky enough to own even one like that...
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@ Deacon Mark....Wait for the Super 400.
@ Vinny....Liking new stuff that you can afford is OK. Nothing wrong with buying new if that adds to your enjoyment. Some of us are more comfortable buying our high end stuff used (I have a 7 figure net worth and have never had a new car...and probably never will)
@ 2 Bop.....Nothing wrong with being a reseller (I have done a fair amount of that myself) so long as you are honest and disclose everything.
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Yes Marco, I have seen your CME Craigslist listings. LOL with your sales. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Zero action on both CME guitars that I advertised. The CME blowout has affected the Gibson ES market. I guess I will have to demo them a bit longer......I enjoy demoing cool guitars. It is one of my hobbies. But I do not like losing money on my toys. If guitar sales fall further, I may follow 2 B and quit buying guitars. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Anyone who buys a guitar from me gets a guitar that has been set up very well and gets full disclosure of any issues or alterations. I also always include all original parts in any sale, something many dealers fail to do. And I sell for less than a dealer would. I am certain that anyone who has bought a guitar from me would not have anything bad to say about me except for a few guys who might say I was a fool to give up such a great guitar.
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I would have no problem buying a guitar from you Marco. You are a very honest man. In fact there are many members here I wouldn’t think twice about buying from. Reverb or eBay on the other hand I would simply never do.
Forget CL and list those guitars here. They will sell. Everyone here knows you are a stand up guy and everyone knows you got great CME guitars. No risk getting a badly notched nut like many had encountered.
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Thanks Vinny. I have sold a few guitars here. I am sure the guys who bought them would all say that they got great guitars at a fair price. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Shipping is a hassle (and a risk). I prefer face to face sales if I can.
After reading some of the horror stories about a few CME guitars, I was reluctant to pull the trigger each time, but I think the bad guitars were small in number. It is just like we used to say in the restaurant business, when you treat a customer right, you are lucky if they tell anyone, but treat a customer badly and they tell everyone.
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