1959 ES-335 Mint Condition- turned it down

**Marty Grass** · 01-27-2018, 03:39 PM

A friend of mine called me today to see if I was interested in a cherry 59 335 that is in unplayed condition. He and I have had quite a few transactions over the years, and he knows his instruments.

I told him that I'd have been interested but now have these CME semi-hollows and don't really need another. I told him that the 335 is quite a find and that every once in a while something like this turns up in the attic of an ex Gibson employee. I asked him what the ballpark figure is in case I ran into someone interested.

$65,000

Apparently that's below book value.

We obviously were on different wavelengths during the first part of our conversation. I thought he found a player for me. I wasn't quick enough to transition to something like this: Well, you know 335s have gone down in value since the CME sale. But I'm willing to split the difference and give you $5K.

These Gibson collectibles do come up in Kalamazoo. Stuff that's been put in a cellar, closet or attic for many decades pops up when the Gibson worker dies and his heir wants to get rid of the guitar. The guys I've met who came across that situation always did the right thing and helped get an appraisal and a sale, at least they have recommended that. There were a few times where the heir just wanted quick cash.

**GNAPPI** · 01-27-2018, 03:44 PM

I'm happy with reproduction / reissues :-)

**jads57** · 01-27-2018, 04:48 PM

Agree with reproductions, fantastic! Why as a player would you ever buy an original, when Gibson is actually making the Old Gibsons but actually better. By that I mean correct laminates, Aidirondak Spruce braces, correct neck angles, consistant great PAF p/ups, even non bound 1958 necks. And all for a fraction of the price of the original, and even cheaper used!

**citizenk74** · 01-27-2018, 05:15 PM

Good grief! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, with mint '59 LPs having been well into six figures for some time. Your friend should get CITES paperwork in order and prepare to ship it to Oligarchistan or wherever the big dough is these days. What the heck is book, anyway? SMDH.

**Marty Grass** · 01-27-2018, 05:43 PM

My friend noted that the 335 has the original PAFs.

Well, I thought they were okay pickups before there was such a thing as boutique winders. Now I don't get why there is this lover affair with PAFs. I believe most of it is hype, and I'm not shooting from my hip on this topic. There was no consistency really in those pickups. There were good ones and some that were meh. The good ones are no more special from an auditory perspective than what can be made today. In fact, we have a ton of choices among fairly consistently made pickups to get exactly what we want. The trick is knowing what we want and being able to appreciate the differences among what's available.

**Marty Grass** · 01-27-2018, 06:17 PM

Another thought on the PAFs is that technology has improved since the late 1950s. If you ask astronauts today whether they would rather orbit in an early 60s vintage spacecraft or some new ship, my guess it the latter gets the nod most of the time.

**neatomic** · 01-27-2018, 06:35 PM

well pickup winding is not rocket science...some thin wire wrapped around a magnet....is really all you need...dano lipstick pickups anyone? hah

when vintage pickups were being made they werent being checked for resistance..there were no digital meters!!...they were wound by the number of winds..(ex. a p90 was 10,000 winds of #42 wire)...and im sure any guitar factory worker after working a week at it, could eyeball when the bobbin was wound to spec...so sure there is some room for discrepancies...also alnico magnets are rather sensitive and can lose strength easily...so a fully charged alnico v bar magnet is going to be quite different from one that has been depleted..thru heat or mishandling..or just plain age

actually the trend in boutique pickup manufacturing has always been to replicate the classics as closely as possible..the old favorites still rule, with few exceptions

cheers

**Mark 63** · 01-27-2018, 06:49 PM

Did you play it?

**Gitfiddler** · 01-27-2018, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mark 63

Did you play it?

Play it?! It was a 59 GIBSON 335, for God's sake, man!!! He shouldn't have been allowed to look at it!!

**Marty Grass** · 01-27-2018, 08:46 PM

The magnets were not consistent. They varied according to what was available to Gibson. The number of coil wraps was quite variable. Bobbins that were more scatterwound filled faster and likely had fewer wraps than a worker that did a more orderly wrap.

Those who try to replicate the classic PAF need to specify which PAF they want to replicate.

Originally Posted by neatomic

well pickup winding is not rocket science...some thin wire wrapped around a magnet....is really all you need...dano lipstick pickups anyone? hah

when vintage pickups were being made they werent being checked for resistance..there were no digital meters!!...they were wound by the number of winds..(ex. a p90 was 10,000 winds of #42 wire)...and im sure any guitar factory worker after working a week at it, could eyeball when the bobbin was wound to spec...so sure there is some room for discrepancies...also alnico magnets are rather sensitive and can lose strength easily...so a fully charged alnico v bar magnet is going to be quite different from one that has been depleted..thru heat or mishandling..or just plain age

actually the trend in boutique pickup manufacturing has always been to replicate the classics as closely as possible..the old favorites still rule, with few exceptions

cheers

**Marty Grass** · 01-27-2018, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mark 63

Did you play it?

I didn't even ask to look at it. I probably should have.

**jads57** · 01-27-2018, 11:39 PM

And although it probably is a very good 335, just because of it's age it becomes unobtainable therefor unplayable. And other than as investment portfolio for some rich guy, it's a useless tool.

**Marty Grass** · 01-28-2018, 10:13 AM

I had thought of asking my friend to let me gig with it a few weeks to see if we bond before I decide on buying it.

I respect collectors. I'm not one. If I can't play it without a sense of dread, it doesn't do anything for me.

Originally Posted by jads57

And although it probably is a very good 335, just because of it's age it becomes unobtainable therefor unplayable. And other than as investment portfolio for some rich guy, it's a useless tool.

**mad dog** · 01-28-2018, 12:22 PM

Collecting is a different world. I'd not be one, even if I had the money. Some of those cherry condition, mint kind of vintage instruments stayed unplayed for good reasons. I tend to be more attracted to the hard played, been everywhere examples. More likely to hit the great sounding/playing jackpot.
MD

**jads57** · 01-28-2018, 02:49 PM

Collecting guitars or anything of value that's not used for it's original intent is much like tits on a bull. The only good thing that guitar collecting has done has been serious reproductions being available to real players.

Other than that it's like Disney World, a lot of hype and little content other profiteering involved. There are so many players who actually work on their music as opposed to showing off their possesions ,especially nowadays.

This more true in the Pop/Rock world, than the Jazz one. But it reminds me of the spoiled rich kids you'd try and play with and would only let you look at their toys.
WTF is the point other than bragging or trying to be cool.

**Stringswinger** · 01-28-2018, 02:50 PM

Rich collectors and rock stars pay the crazy prices for vintage Gibsons, Fenders and Martins (for bragging rights). And why not? They are free to spend their coin as they damn well please. My experience is that the vintage stuff is often better than the new stuff, but not always. The aged old wood and old magnets in the PUPS do add a "vibe" more often than not.

Gibson's VOS reissues do a fine job of replicating the vibe of the vintage stuff for a lot less money. Doing a cost benefit comparison, I would opt for the reissue. Vintage 335's and Lesters with PAF's are the holy grail for many and the price reflects both rarity and demand.

I would have no interest in either today, but if someone else is living a dream acquiring a guitar like this, I say congrats to them. May we all live our dreams, should those dreams include a late 50's 335 or not.

**LtKojak** · 01-28-2018, 05:55 PM

Closet queens are generally not good players... and the statement comes from somebody that's been preparing vintage instruments for guitar shows for over fifteen years. Me!

**Jabberwocky** · 01-29-2018, 02:22 AM

Good luck fetching $65 000 on that. Maybe Carter's Vintage have the clientele for guitars like this one.

It is probably a nice guitar. But the price tag changes the complexion of what it is. Nobody would seriously play it. The right price is the one that is out of reach of those under the 99.9999th percentile. It is for the one out of a million. That's for the 7200 people out there. Huge market. Just got to find them folk.

This will be wasted on my meagre skills so...pass.

**jads57** · 01-29-2018, 02:37 AM

Just like pedigree dogs, people are willing to pay for things they can show off. Best dogs are mixed breed mutts from rescue groups, and or the Humane Society.

Again when something is just a prized possesion to show off instead of something used for a better purpose. It ceases to be of true value, whether it's a dog, a guitar, a car, etc. I've owned many of the coveted guitars, amps, people go on and on about to adnauseam. 1950's Les Pauls, ES-355TDC, ,Byrdlands, Teles,Strats even a Citation, Dumble amps.

I used them as tools to play music and make a living with, not to show off with. I'm way happier with the newer gear overall.

**73Fender** · 01-29-2018, 09:20 AM

I would love to see it just as a piece of history.

I don't have a lot of experience with vintage stuff but had a few "old guitars" when I was a kid in the 70's. I had a 60 or 61 LP SG for a little while back then. A few years ago I stumbled on a RI on Craiglslist and, from what I can recall, I'd say the reissue is better.

**London John** · 01-29-2018, 02:35 PM

Marty, I may be interested in your friend's guitar. I have a few 335's, including a cherry '59. If it's genuinely mint, I'd likely buy it. I'll send you a PM.

**citizenk74** · 01-29-2018, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by London John

Marty, I may be interested in your friend's guitar. I have a few 335's, including a cherry '59. If it's genuinely mint, I'd likely buy it. I'll send you a PM.

1)

2) This sounds like a win/win. Please post a NGD when the dust settles! We'd all love to see this instrument!

**Marty Grass** · 01-29-2018, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by London John

Marty, I may be interested in your friend's guitar. I have a few 335's, including a cherry '59. If it's genuinely mint, I'd likely buy it. I'll send you a PM.

I sent you his email and contacted him. He has shipped quite a few guitars all over most of the world. I hope this works out for you.