Gibson L-5 and L-5 CES Refrets

**FourOnSix** · 01-12-2018, 06:54 PM

Compound question:

I have an early 50s acoustic L-5 ('52 I think, but I don't have it here to check the serial no.) that requires extra effort and hand strength to get a clear, sustaining note because of thin, low frets, and a '97 L-5 CES that has jumbo frets that are in great shape except that they taper off too soon on the treble side, making it easy to pull the strings off the frets. With careful attention, I can mostly avoid doing this, but just once in a solo is one time too many.

Question no. 1: Who do you recommend for the best fret work in the San Francisco Bay Area. Both of these guitars are primo examples, and I would be willing to pay top dollar for the best work. So far, I have spoken with Gryphon Stringed Instruments and SF Guitarworks.

Question no. 2: Gryphon said they do not preserve the nibs. Is this a big issue for any of you? SF Guitarworks they told me they generally do the same, but that I should bring the guitar in and we can talk it over. Would you trust someone to preserve/restore fret nibs whose normal practice is not to do that? It seems to me that is a very skilled job, and you would want someone very experienced with preserving/restoring the nibs.

**vinnyv1k** · 01-12-2018, 07:33 PM

Without question Gryphon. They have done fret jobs for me for 40 years. Pricey yes but perfect work.
SF Guitarworks if you don’t mind some new dings and scratches. Frets nibs....you won’t miss them with a perfect fret job. Frank Ford only hires the best luthiers to work in his shop.

**FourOnSix** · 01-12-2018, 08:49 PM

Thanks Vinny.

**losaltosjoe** · 01-13-2018, 12:53 PM

If you don't mind going a bit further south to San Jose, give Kent at C.B. Perkins a call.

This is no knock on Gryphon as I've used them for years (mostly for set ups). But when I purchased Patrick2's L5, I brought it to Gryphon for a set up. It came back with the pickup pitched and the guitar buzzing. Gryphon fixed the pickup but could not fix the buzzing issue (and to their credit, they did not charge me for their effort to fix the buzz).

I ended up bringing the L5 to CB Perkins, who ultimately solved the buzzing problem. It took a couple of weeks but Kent and his son were tenacious in their effort. I couldn't be happier with the results. If I'm not mistaken I think it was Vinny1k who turned me on to Kent/CB Perkins.

Please let me know how your refret project goes as I am considering re-fretting my 1957 Gibson 175. I'm struggling a bit with the low, thin frets.

Good luck!

**helios** · 01-13-2018, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by losaltosjoe

If you don't mind going a bit further south to San Jose, give Kent at C.B. Perkins a call.

This is no knock on Gryphon as I've used them for years (mostly for set ups). But when I purchased Patrick2's L5, I brought it to Gryphon for a set up. It came back with the pickup pitched and the guitar buzzing. Gryphon fixed the pickup but could not fix the buzzing issue (and to their credit, they did not charge me for their effort to fix the buzz).

I ended up bringing the L5 to CB Perkins, who ultimately solved the buzzing problem. It took a couple of weeks but Kent and his son were tenacious in their effort. I couldn't be happier with the results. If I'm not mistaken I think it was Vinny1k who turned me on to Kent/CB Perkins.

Please let me know how your refret project goes as I am considering re-fretting my 1957 Gibson 175. I'm struggling a bit with the low, thin frets.

Good luck!

What was the source of the buzz?

**vinnyv1k** · 01-13-2018, 04:29 PM

Yes Kent is a friend of mine too. C.B. Perkins is another great place. Kent does fine work also. His prices are better than Gryphon. He is a great guy. Also he is a Heritage dealer.

**losaltosjoe** · 01-13-2018, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by helios

What was the source of the buzz?

I'm not exactly sure as Kent investigated/changed many variables. Kent said it was a very pesky problem to fix and when I finally picked it up he jokingly said something like "I don't ever want to see that guitar again."

He was relieved when I showed up a month ago with the ES 175 for a set up and not the L5.

**deacon Mark** · 01-13-2018, 05:16 PM

The nibs gone I think is better and done right it will play so much better. Sounds like the guitars are needing attention. The tapering of the 97 L5 has me wondering what happened. If I understand you the frets are in good shape on that but some how they cut a bit short?

In any case you have Gryphon and the other recommendations that would be fine. I just wonder what Gryphon charges for refrets? The 52 will probably especially be much better. Nothing like a real nice set of new frets that bring even more sound out of a guitar like that one. Once refretted and non-cut super 400 that had nothing left on the frets, completely met the criteria of a fretless wonder and then some. The guitar was a monster sound even in that condition but after the fret job the sound was over the top. Clarity, tone, power, and the fellow said...........why did I wait so long?

**plasticpigeon** · 01-13-2018, 09:41 PM

With the L-5 CES is it definitely the frets and not that the nut is cut so the the strings are too close to the edge of the fingerboard?

I can totally understand why people don't keep the nibs when refretting. They would have to be made exactly the right width and if they moved even very slightly when being pressed in they could damage the binding. Has anyone ever seen or heard of a refret job where the binding nibs were kept. It is the kind of thing I would do if I had the opportunity as I like trying things out, and seem to always do jobs that other people hate to do.

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

If I understand you the frets are in good shape on that but some how they cut a bit short?

Yes.

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

I just wonder what Gryphon charges for refrets?

They quoted me $445.

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

With the L-5 CES is it definitely the frets and not that the nut is cut so the the strings are too close to the edge of the fingerboard?

Yes, definitely the frets. I'll try to upload a pic tomorrow or the next day.

**LtKojak** · 01-14-2018, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

I can totally understand why people don't keep the nibs when refretting.

I hate nibs with a passion.

**deacon Mark** · 01-14-2018, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by FourOnSix

Yes.

They quoted me $445.

That is not a bad price for SF area, I was going to guess they charge at least $500 or more. I assume that is for nickel silver I personally do not like SS, but the Jescar Gold EVO are nice. They may not be exact for a vintage 52 so you have to see what you like. I really fine nickel silver frets fine I am not hard on frets, SS I have to charge more they wear tools out faster.

**Jabberwocky** · 01-14-2018, 10:14 AM

I got over my "gotta have nibs conserved" phase. Nibless frets are much better and give more real estate especially since you mentioned the e string slipping off the edge of the fretboard.

I won't fuss over the nibs. Good luck with the refret. 47x104 or 55x095?

**vinnyv1k** · 01-14-2018, 01:41 PM

With nicely polished fret ends you will never miss the nibs. I have seen fret jobs were the customer insisted on keeping the nibs. It did not look good at all. Less chance of binding cracks without the nibs.

**Stringswinger** · 01-14-2018, 01:51 PM

$450 is an average price for a bound board re-fret here in the Bay Area. I got a SS refret done last year for $400, which was a very good deal. In the future I will stick with nickel frets. The SS frets wear out strings faster, and if you use expensive strings, as I do (TI flats), the whole thing becomes a wash economically.

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 02:09 PM

Thanks, all, for your helpful replies. Thanks to the overwhelming consensus, I've gotten over my preference for preserving the nibs.

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

47x104 or 55x095?

Maybe I'm dense, or not coffee'd up enough yet, but I don't understand the question.

**vinnyv1k** · 01-14-2018, 02:11 PM

Fret size

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Fret size

Ah, dunno. I'm pretty uneducated on fret size. I was going to replace the CES with jumbo frets such as those that are currently on there, and the '52 with narrower frets.

**Stringswinger** · 01-14-2018, 02:25 PM

I went with 104x47 on my 175 refret. Great size, I would do that size again on any guitar.

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

I went with 104x47 on my 175 refret. Great size, I would do that size again on any guitar.

So you would put 104x47 on an older, eminently collectible, guitar whose original frets are substantially narrower?

**Stringswinger** · 01-14-2018, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by FourOnSix

So you would put 104x47 on an older, eminently collectible, guitar whose original frets are substantially narrower?

Yep, it will not be all original in any case. New frets are like putting new tires on a car, I do not think it detracts from value (who would want to buy an antique car with bald tires?). You might as well put the best tires you can on a car that you are going to drive (as opposed to displaying), and the same holds true for guitars. If you are going to play it, put on the best frets for playability that you can. Jumbo frets are, IMO the easiest frets in terms of playabilty.

**FourOnSix** · 01-14-2018, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Yep, it will not be all original in any case. New frets are like putting new tires on a car, I do not think it detracts from value (who would want to buy an antique car with bald tires?). You might as well put the best tires you can on a car that you are going to drive (as opposed to displaying), and the same holds true for guitars. If you are going to play it, put on the best frets for playability that you can. Jumbo frets are, IMO the easiest frets in terms of playabilty.

Ok.

I am completely on board in terms of jumbo frets and playability. Just to play devil's advocate, it is my understanding that they sacrifice a little bit in terms of intonation. My thinking, in addition to the collectibility issue (though I do buy your point about tires), is that the improvement in intonation could counter any slight loss of playability.

But again, I'm just throwing that out there for argument's sake. You are doing a good job of selling me on 104x47.

**Stringswinger** · 01-14-2018, 03:07 PM

A guitar with a wooden bridge saddle will never perfectly intonate in any case. I think the advantage of playability outweighs the intonation advantage (and frankly I think you would need dog ears to tell the difference).

**ThatRhythmMan** · 01-14-2018, 03:22 PM

It’s not for everyone, but my preference is 100x51. I play with a pretty light touch, and I really like the tall wire, almost approaching having a scalloped board.