Bone saddle on floating bridge?

[RonD]

I tried the worthless search function before asking...

I'm in the throes of making one of making my poorest purchases partially playable, perhaps?
During my research, I keep coming across bridge saddles with a bone insert?
I've never seen any mention of them here.
Opinions? Experience?

Cheers,

[deacon Mark]

You can get Try it and see if you like it, nothing else can really be said.

[RonD]

You can get Try it and see if you like it, nothing else can really be said.

I was hoping someone would post their experience.

[neatomic]

bone saddles work best if you are using an archtop without a pickup...and bronze type strings ...like on a flatop, where bone is used for the saddle, wears better than wood and imparts a a certain "crispness" to the tone


with electric type strings and pickups they kinda fall in between tune-a-matics and wooden saddles...but can add an unpleasant pinginess..still tho as deacon m said ^ - give it a try...really depends on you! your application and the tone you desire

if you want to get more specific as far as your application, we can perhaps fine tune our recommendation


cheers

[ptchristopher3]

Hi Ron,

The difficulty is that bridge changes can be less than obvious in the results.

Broadly stated, it is a matter of total mass, saddle hardness, and fit to the top.

More mass generally means a smoother attack, more consistent response, but often less character from the body.

Harder saddles often mean a more ringing tone from the high E and a wound G, but often no notable difference in the other strings.

A good fit to the top typically means better acoustic volume, and more acoustic character. It can also get rid of some odd resonances but this is more rare than lore might suggest.

And ALL of this is subject to remarkable variation and surprise.

For example, a Byrdland sounds BY FAR more woody to me with a TOM vs. a wood bridge.

So I think you will find it hard to relate another person’s experience to what your can likely expect.

What is on there now? What change are your trying to make in the sound? That could help quite a bit in speculating on the likely difference.

Chris

[RonD]

Thank you neatomic and ptchristopher3!
That's the type of information I was hoping for.

ptchristopher3, I'm trying to resolve some problems on a "custom build"...
I have five different bridges. My preffered sound was with the tune-o-matic saddle.
The wooden bridges sounded good, but the intonation with the TOM is easier to deal with.
The problem is that it's already bottomed out. The action is still very high, for me.
I'm really hoping to avoid a neck reset. This mongrel has already cost me too much already!

[neatomic]

sorry...but, if you are bottoming out the saddle with still too high action, then saddle material matters little

do the straight edge check for your neck angle..if it's in need of reset, there's no saddle that's gonna fix it!!!

sorry to say

luck

cheers

[RonD]

sorry...but, if you are bottoming out the saddle with still too high action, then saddle material matters little

do the straight edge check for your neck angle..if it's in need of reset, there's no saddle that's gonna fix it!!!

sorry to say

luck

cheers

That's what I'm afraid of.

[RonD]

I'm waiting for a new tailpiece. When that arrives, I'll string it up and post some pics of what I'm dealing with.

[ptchristopher3]

Ron,

When bottomed out, what is the height of the E strings above the top at the bridge?

This height means quite a bit. For example, if you are bottomed out but a good 7/8” (~ 22mm) above the top, that is not a disaster.

You could have a true disaster in hand, but we do not know that yet.

Chris

[RonD]

Neatomic and Chris.
Again, thank you!
This is exactly why I stay on this site!
Chris, as soon as the TP arrives, I'll do the measurements.

Cheers,
Ron

[ptchristopher3]

This is exactly why I stay on this site!

I stay for the hors d’oeuvres myself.

Well and “pants-optional” Thursdays too.

Chris

[coolvinny]

I had a bone saddle made for the floating bridge on my Andersen laminate jazzbox, in efforts to brighten the tone when I was using flatwounds and a very thick pick. I now use roundwounds and a slightly thinner (still fairly thick) pick and have gone back to my ebony saddle. It sounds good either way. As someone mentioned, the bone saddle is somewhere between wood and a TOM.

[neatomic]

This bridge height is a function of neck angle,

hah good post

and yes neck angle is the key..any bridge height measurements are relative to correct neck angle!

one of the first things that should be scoped out when looking at a guitar for purchase

cheers

ps- just for clarity, the post that i was responding to was subsequently deleted

[neatomic]

teles have bolt on necks for that very reason!!..and have a long history of factory shims for correct neck angle...fender actually went to the 3 bolt/screw shim neck for awhile

if a neck needs a reset, cause the angle's gone bad....there's nothng a bridge saddle can do

sure you can tweak it a bit... remove some wood from the base or saddle, but you are just covering up for the bad neck angle

a stock bridge should not have to be bottomed out or way up in the air on a new guitar! in order to get decent playability ie. action

cheers

ps- again, for clarity, the post i was responding to with this, was deleted

[deacon Mark]

I recently reset a 1966 Gretsch neck (6119) bridge height on these need to be 7/8 or little higher can work. Bone would change sound but it is an experiment of one. As Chris said lots of variables to consider that was why my short answer try it. Most of time I prefer ebony but Bill Barker at times used bone under the e and B strings. Seemed brighter but not as much as you would think.

The great thing about archops is you can so many things without touching the carving or bracing. Tailpiece, bridge, and the all the ways to have these set. In my world being a traditionalist the Super 400s and D’Angelico s set the standards. Fooling around with it all is cool but like trying to get perfect intonation on a guitar it can be frustrating. At some point it is the law of diminishing returns. Chris’s post above seems to be my experience also and good advice.

[ptchristopher3]

Hi Nea’,

Sorry to make your useful and fun posts seem orphaned. I just decided to lay off the topic.

Looking forward to talking with you when Ron comes back to this subject.

Many thanks,

Chris

[Spook410]

We're not talking about the situation where your bridge adjustment has bottomed out but action is still too high.. but that's the only issue are we? I had a new Yunzhi arrive with the action too high with the bridge adjustment bottomed out for the delivered bridge. Solution was to take off some wood around the thumbscrews so I could lower it more. An easy fix that worked out just fine.

On bridge materials, I went to a TOM on a Wu guitar because intonation was giving me fits. While it didn't really fix the finicky beast, it certainly made it easier to live with. And, you know, on this particular guitar in the given moon phase, and with a Republican administration, I could not hear any difference in tone from the .012 phosphor bronze strings. Maybe if I did a side by side swapping just the bridge but if it takes that sort of comparison, it's too much of a nit.

All that being said I'm far from done with bridge swaps. I have several sitting in the drawer now that a long move and house renovation are done and my guitar bench is finally back in operation. What I want to try is a larger bridge on larger guitars. I might even see about more mass on one side than the other.

[Matt Cushman]

Archtop bridges are sold as one size fits all. The saddle is always pre cut for intonation. The problem here is there is no one stagger pattern for the saddle top that works for all guitars. Guitars with different scale lengths, action settings or string gauges can vary a lot. Good intonation depends on the saddle being right for your particular guitar. There are a few patterns, the even taper saddle top and the staggered style saddle top. I prefer the even tapered style. The best saddle top is one that is custom cut to suit the guitar and its setup. This is one of the things to keep in mind when selecting a replacement bridge. If you have a TOM on your archtop, check where it intonates and try to find a saddle or maybe tweak one a bit to match it.

[Max405]

It’s a pleasure to read the comments of a bunch of guys who really know what they are doing.
When I get my bridge back from MC, I will learn a lot about this topic, through hands on experience.
But once again, it blows me away with how much you people know and how you share it freely around here.
Ive learned a lot here. Thanks to you guys.

[neatomic]

agree Joe D

this forum in general, and all these many threads are great because they are a sum of all the parts..every single person who takes time to contribute!!

expert or beginner, every voice counts and is of interest..sometimes it takes the beginner to bring out the best in the expert...

just always keep'em positive and non condescending..everyone is here to learn, and we are all at different levels on certain topics..

there's always something to learn here!

cheers fellows

[RonD]

So, the tailpiece arrived.
Gave my tech the new parts... tailpiece, new pickup, bridge, strings, strap button... fret dress done, new nut...
Fingers were crossed...

Mind blown! Not only is this mongrel playable, it plays better than it ever did!
Me, well... a work in progress!
It has renewed my faith in man! Well, my tech, at least.
I even have a little bit of room to lower the bridge saddle, if I need to??? Wow!
Far from perfect, but far better than I expected.

My tech advised me that I should keep an eye on it for a few days, then we'll fine tune.
Of course, I don't have any patience!

Also, just want to say thanks to Chris, neatomic and Hammertone!
I'll post updates...

Oh, this is in no way an endorsement of the builder... a hobbyist posing as a luthier.
My fault. Was dazzled by pretty pictures and internet babble.

Cheers,
Ron

[Hammertone]

...Also, just want to say thanks to Chris, neatomic and Hammertone!
I'll post updates...

Please note I'm being thanked for NOT posting on this thread.
Thank yew, thank yew, verra much.
Pix, please.

[RonD]

Please note I'm being thanked for NOT posting on this thread.
Thank yew, thank yew, verra much.
Pix, please.

Yeah, but you know why...
Pics coming tomorrow. The ones I took are, well, wanting!

[RonD]

Here's a few bad phone pics which show the current state.
This is with Chromes 11-50. If I go heavier, I'll have even more room to adjust the bridge height. For now, it's good.