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Both similar price, a single pickup, carved top, V neck profile.... Different cosmetics.
How do they differ in terms of playability and tone.. Electric and acoustic..
Which would you buy and why?
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12-24-2017 03:06 AM
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Afaik the Gretsch does not have a carved top, more like solid formed.
I like the New Yorkers but everyone here seems to think they are pants.
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I think the 309 is good, but change out the pickup.
I would recommend also getting a loar 600 or 700 and using a krivo pickup.... that gives a nice tone
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Also one thing that might not bother you but bums me out about modern pickups is that they are balanced for steel strings and I like to use acoustic strings or monels to get a good acoustic rhythm sound.
The krivo is balanced for acoustic
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Go with a 600 series Loar, if you can. I played a few 309's (and whatever they #'d their thin bodied no cut p90 version) and they were terrible.
The 6/700 series are night and day better than the 300.
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OK I've only played one 309 and thought it be decent.... But yeah, could be right.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I swear by my 600.
If you want an electric with a strong unplugged sound useable for acoustic rhythm gigs, your options are pretty limited.
If you want a box with a P90 on it though, go Godin.
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My impression was the New Yorkers are louder acoustically than the 5th Avenue, but I could be wrong. Anyone?
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True that I am not interested in having any money tied up in firewood. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
But I can get either of those guitars used... For a third of the price of a new 600 series.
Its tough deciding on what to buy when it is all mail order!
I bet I end up with an Ibanez.. Haha. Because they are plentiful on the used and new market. When are they going to make a carved guitar...
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I'd have to try one again...the one I played was set up with very low action and flats...it sounded like cardboard. Originally Posted by christianm77
The Godin is surprisingly loud and nice sounding for a small, laminate guitar.
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What do you want, though? What era of playing interests you, which players? Originally Posted by Tommy_G
These guitars have a very specific thing, which is kind of 40s swing guitar....
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For musical taste 40s swing is right in my favorite genres.. But my taste for it resides broadly in the big band genre.. And I will never play in a big band swing band... Originally Posted by christianm77
I have never paid alot of detailed attention to specific guitarists and most of my specific listening is random play by various unknown guitarists posting thier talent on youtube..
I sing in a duo with a female music partner, small folk fests, restaurants, open mics...
Her original material centers on modern folk pop and her covers are late 50s early 60s pop.
My original material is an upbeat 90s country vibe and covers are early rockabilly and pop also from 50s and early 60s. Elvis, Everly Brothers..
Our voices work well in that 50s and early 60s pop genre.. But its just one marker stylistically.
We both have pop jazz interests we want to incorporate. Think Ella Fitzgerald and Bing Crosby duo that tilts toward a more twangy bluegrass rockabilly sound. Nora Jones is a modern example of what we listen to.
Reducing all that.. One can see it could also easily migrate to a contemporary western swing as well.
Not easy to find a box to describe.
All I really know is that straight acoustic guitar is often too twangy sounding with not enough weight behind the notes and my yamaha AEX 1500 is perhaps not forward enough being really soggy and mellow.
I will also continue experimenting with string choices on these guitars... Currently thinking moving from Nickel Bronze to GHS Nickle Rockers or Martin Monels on my acoustic guitar and from DAChromes to TI Swing on the Archtop.
But also looking for guitar alternates that bring mids forward..reduces twang.. Yet have full lows.. Kind of strikes me as a bluegrass tone.
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I think a Godin Kingpin would be right up your ... errr... 5th Avenue.
Don't bother with the other two... save up another couple of hundred or whatever.
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Thanks for the advice. Any suggestion for strings on that one.
Btw.. A gorgeous flamed Jazz version with the floater is avaiable used. Is that also a contender or stick with the P90s of the kingpin?
Btw.. Everytime I have played a 5th Avenue in the store I always thought the acoustic tone was too nasal without the warm lows and full bass I want to hear and I never tried plugging one in as a result. Two strums and its back on the rack. Maybe its the stock strings...
Otoh.. The Godin Montreal Premiere with p90s is on my dream guitar list for an electric guitar. Gorgeous tone.Last edited by Tommy_G; 12-24-2017 at 05:42 PM.
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Warm lows and full bass...sure you want an arch top?
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Seems that most flat top guitars have too much twang...not enough fundamental behind the note. But on my flatop..it has excellent tight lowss. The aex is very warm. Not tight on the bass tho.
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It's not the best acoustic sound. It really depends on what you want. Originally Posted by Tommy_G
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I like the Godin Jazz. Again these aren't really acoustic guitars, but they have some acoustic sound. Plugged in I think the Godin Kingpin has more of an old school sound and the Jazz is a bit smoother and more modern.
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Just to give you an idea, this is the type of tone I get from my Loar LH600 acoustically: Originally Posted by Tommy_G
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I just sold my LH700. Not that the guitar wasn't great. It had zero issues. And if I didn't have several other acoustic archtops I'd have kept it, for the guitar is fantastic. Highly recommended!
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Nice! Originally Posted by christianm77
I am only listening through a cell phone.. But I hear the warmth i like and it has just the right amount of cut... The midrange (and by mids I refer mostly to the lower mids that are at the note fundamentals) lend more to warmth and could still be a little "harder" to be to my needs for a mix.. But is certainly sweet toned right for the type of solo you did.. It reminds me a lot of when I pluck the strings on my cello ... Very similar tonality.
By comparison .. My AEx archtop is warmer..hollower.. Less cut... Sort of a fuzzy but not fizzy tone... I need more "bark and bite but its sustain is adequate"
I like that it doesnt have the edgey sometimes fizzy ambiguous and sometimes overwhelming top end of most flat tops. Smoothly rolled off highs.
Ok... Gping back to the Loar demo... what I would wish is for slightly more sustain for smoother dynamics in conventional rhythmic chording / strumming... And as mentioned, also slightly harder lower mids to ensure it stands its ground and has its own definition in a busy mix.
That guitar sures sings nice in the mid to upper register.Last edited by Tommy_G; 12-25-2017 at 01:32 AM.
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A further note that my AEX is an cross braced archtop and in reviewing other threads on the subject the cross braced are bassier warmer.. Lack mids focus.. But have more sustain. Pretty much explains and confirms my comparative tonal observations above.
With regrets .. There was a very nice Eastman 805CE, also cross braced but solid top, for sale used at a price only about 350 higher than my YamahaAEX1500 at the time I bought but was a 6 hour return drive to check out. At the time I read reviews and believed the Yamaha would be the better fit for me.
I was probably unduly influenced by GregsGuitars videos on the AEX. Now wiser as it seems every guitar sounds great and many nearly identical due to his signal chain..
In any event.. i will keep an eye open for the used Eastmans. I will have to wait on a Loar until a years time when I will make a trek to Cali. Its C$2k to get a 600 to me.. Much more for a 700 and I wont do that without demoing it first hand.
Still half thinking that if I use different.. Possibly acoustic strings on the AEX I might get where I want to get to...Last edited by Tommy_G; 12-25-2017 at 02:58 AM.
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Eastmans have a more modern voicing to my ears than Loars
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Dreadnought or jumbo I think. Can't understand why you're thinking archtop at all, no offense... Originally Posted by Tommy_G
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I certainly wouldn't rule out a flat-top I'll put it that way.
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I have 4 flat tops...my overall favorite tonally is a lam maple jumbo archback with solid spruce top.. A Guild JF65-12. However a 12 string this deep is too big for me to ride and sing with. It has great midrange and cut... Jangly but not fizzy. Perhaps a six string smaller body version of this is what I need.
Another is a solid Rosewood solid spruce in a dread jumbo hybrid shape . That has perfectly tight albeit slightly overthetop bass.. Edgey and fizzy highs. A very scooped tone.
Have a jumbo 6 string ply top and mahogany body. Pretty sterile.. Lots of mid focus that might work well in a band context.. Might have to dig this one out of storage and string it up differently.
I suppose what I was hoping to get from and archtop were warm woody tones with a bit more mid focus with a smoother top end compared to a dread. Something that tonally differentiates from my partners dread. Also more stage comfort due to a thinner body.. And somewhat more blues type electric tones. Something a bit more old school in tonality to compliment the genre blend we have.Last edited by Tommy_G; 12-25-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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