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Well, the Finley arrived, and it's worse than I had hoped, but better than I feared.
The good: It is a Wu. Yolanda Team sticker inside, with Wu's signature. It's big, and it's acoustically loud and bright. It sounds good to me. The fit and finish are good, not perfect but good. Minor flaws in the binding, but you have to really look, and there is a spot at the end of the neck that wasn't buffed well, but it's hidden by the pickup. The truss rod works.
The bad: It was almost unplayable. The setup was really bad, with the strings almost 1.5mm above the fretboard at the nut. The slots were far too shallow. The action was very high with the saddle as low as it would go, and it came that way. The pickup was dead quiet. Dead quiet, as in "He's dead, Jim". With the help of a tricorder, soldering iron, and VOM, I brought him back to life. But he's still sick. The sound is bad. The volume control is wired backward, and the tone really sucks. The neck is like a 2x4. It's 1 13/16" wide at the nut, and the carve is rather flat, with pronounced shoulders, very square feeling.
All that said, I think the price was fair. A few hours of work, and it's playable. The action is reasonable after filing the nut slots and the saddle slots. There are a few ways to lower the strings when the bridge is all the way down. and the quickest is to just deepen the saddle slots. The saddle radius was flat, so deepening the outer slots got all the strings the same height. I'm not sure I can bond with the neck, but I'll give it time. It may grow on me. I expected the electronics to need replacing, and I already have a Benedetto S6 pickup and Schatten thumbwheels ordered. The guitar is beautiful, and I think it will be a nice acoustic. I do not need an 18" acoustic archtop, but since I have it, maybe I can find something to do with it.
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12-19-2017 11:30 PM
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What a steal! An all carved 18" archtop for $650! That sellers SB 18", also on auction, sold for $1850.
Color looks much better in your photos than the auction. Maybe install a custom bridge.
That's the 3rd I've seen the Wu team attempt w-b-w binding. Their forte is wood binding. What's the cutaway look like?
Beautiful guitar. You should keep it. Congrats!
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Wow! That is incredible!
Really rich looking and it probably sounds massive!
Give it some TLC. I think the end result will be worth the effort.
Joe D
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The cutaway looks fine, it's completely smooth, no lines that can be felt.
I plan on keeping it for the foreseeable future. I bought it to play, not to sell. Not to say that I never will sell it, but no plans as of now. I'm hoping it will sound good with the new electronics. The stock pickup is shaky at best, and I broke two screwdrivers adjusting the polepieces. The slots are tiny, and they felt like they were epoxied in place. One screwdriver broke off at the tip, and the other came loose in the handle. Admittedly, they were cheap Harbor Freight screwdrivers, but still... I'm not even going to try to rewire the pots, I'll probably just toss them in the round filing cabinet. Every SD Benedetto pickup I've ever heard sounds excellent, so I'm optimistic. The wife said it's pretty, and didn't tell me I have to sleep on the couch, so it's all good.
Thanks for all the positive comments. It's been a good NGD.
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Happy NGD! Well, it really looks great. Hope you get it playing to your liking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I had my Elferink Tonemaster ordered with a large neck profile , ended up bringing to local luthier and had it recarved. The good thing was my guitar was a natural color already.
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Your neck looks very similar to mine. I requested a D and that's pretty much what I received.
These guitars all need a little TLC to be complete. Electronics are a known replacement, which is why many of us forgo the install of any electronics. But once you've dialed these guitars in they're very exceptional guitars for the $. Good luck with finishing yours!
What's the depth of your 18"?
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Congrats!!!! - as the owner of a 51' Gibson Super 300 which is also a 18" carved acoustic archtop I bet that one sounds impressive. I thought my 17" D'angelico EXL-1 MIK sounded big and dynamic until I played the Gibson. There is a very real volume/tone/dynamic and I would suggest technique learning curve difference between a 17" and an 18" . Enjoy the journey
Will
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It's 3 3/8" in depth. I'm slowly making changes. I've replaced the tuner buttons, which were sort of rubbery plastic, with gold metal ones from my Eastman. I replaced the Eastman buttons with ebony because the gold ones are so heavy that it makes the T145 neck-heavy. They don't seem to make a big difference on the Super 400, but they look much better. I'm certainly leaning toward replacing the tuners with some Gotohs, but there's no hurry about that. Now I'm waiting on the electronics. After that, I'm seriously considering replacing the tailpiece. The one it has is heavy gold-plated metal, with a heavy ebony (?) cap. I'd really like a simpler all metal tailpiece, but I need one with the same dimensions for mounting, including the 1/2" hole for the endpin jack. I can enlarge the hole to the right size if it's in the right place to start with, but I'd rather not have to. I think the mounting holes are the same as the ES175 tailpiece, but I'm not certain. Any suggestions are welcome. If I absolutely have to I could redrill the mounting holes, but the jack hole can't move.
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I wasn't a fan of the pale brass on those Wilkinson tuners and opted for a set of Schaller M6's. I avoided any drilling and chose to pay a pro to handle the electrics...the result was I'm glad I did. That guitar is a great shell...you've simply to fill in the blanks.
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I like dealing with the electrics, have since I started helping my father in his radio/TV/stereo repair shop back in the '60s. I ain't skeered of electrics.
I may have a pro do a fret dress/level, the frets have some sharp ends sticking out. Mr Wu seems to understand wood, but maybe not much else, at least as much. Otherwise, I plan to do it myself, mostly because I enjoy doing it. I don't have much need to build from scratch these days, but I still like to do basic maintenance and upgrades. I'm passing a good time, me.
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Congratulations on an instrument that will be worthy of all the TLC you can spare, and play it in good health!
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Merry Christmas!
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You can be as critical of Mr Wu as you choose. But you're being critical of items about your guitar which were already commonly known and repeated throughout this forum before you chose to purchase that guitar. Mr Wu has built and or overseen the building of hundreds if not thousands of guitars. To suggest he knows nothing more than wood isn't the opinion of those of us who've owned his guitars.
If I'd have purchased the only 18" carved archtop available on the planet at that price I'd be much more appreciative than critical. But that's just me.
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I've seen a few perfect guitars. There was this Collings.. and a Kinscherff (custom flat top).. and Goodall which I should have bought 5 of back when he was in Hawaii. Other than that, I think most of us can find a flaw or three if we go over an acoustic instrument so I think you should be pretty pleased. Doesn't sound like anything but the normal Chinese archtop flaws we've seen: awful electronics, needs a fret job, needs a set up. I've also had one guitar with the bridge issue you describe and you're right, not a hard fix. Wish I could play it after you get it all sorted out. My 18" Yunzhi is a bit on the bright side.
You got a really good deal. Nitro finish, solid woods, all that. Sounds like you know what you're doing to get it set up. Only thing I would add is that doing fret ends is trivial. Doing fret leveling is also in the amateur column (if I can, anyone can.. trust me on this) and I think you might actually enjoy it. Since it was inexpensive you could try many things. Acoustic pickups, locking tuners, very different bridges, cable tailpieces.. it's a good platform to work out from.
Thanks for the pics.. can't say I like the 'Finley' inlay on the headstock much but the rest of the guitar is really nice and you certainly got a deal on it.Last edited by Spook410; 12-22-2017 at 12:12 AM.
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That was remarkable luck that the bidding ended as it did, I would have jumped in too had I been paying attention.
Seems like perhaps the seller ordered these and was not prepared to follow through with the extra setup work, but now with the cost savings this way it is very practical to get those finishing touches. I do feel for whoever bought the other one at 3 x the price, if the conditions were same, they might not be as accepting if they did not understand the normal as-delivered state on China customs.
Even the neck shape could be re-done, as this is nitrocellulose finish and much easier to blend in a partial respray.
Carving the neck is quite a bit more than hardware refresh and adjustment, but the buy-in price for this project might leave room for some special surgery (sure, easy for me to tell you how much you should invest now!)
Congrats on a great deal, what a way to get a very big Wu !
John
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I knew that work would have to be done. The truth is that the same things need to be done on all these guitars - electronics, fretwork, etc. This does not seem to be improving. Either he doesn't know how, or he's taking shortcuts, most likely the latter. It's understandable, of course. For the price, one shouldn't be amazed by this, and I wasn't really complaining, just pointing out the obvious, so that anyone reading this would know what to expect. Honestly, it's more likely a lack of attention to detail rather than lack of knowledge. He's trying to make money to live on, and more concerned with volume than with the diminishing returns from taking time on details. I know how to do fretwork from my own builds, even though it's not something I really enjoy, and I no longer have all the proper tools handy, but I can dig them out. It's not really bad, just not perfect, and while I'm aware that I got a good deal, I feel obligated to note the not-so-good as well as the good. It's very playable now, and will get better. Yesterday I tackled the nut, and got it down to an acceptable height so that the strings are ~half above the top, where I prefer them. It had been far too tall, with the slots 3 to 4 times deeper than the strings. That made a huge difference in tunability, but it took a few hours of work. I don't mind it, and really enjoyed it, but not everyone does. I really want to hear it with a proper pickup, and waiting on that is the hardest part.
Again, I'm not saying I got a bad deal. I got a very good one. But anyone buying one of these needs to know that it's going to require an additional several hundred dollars and a lot of work to get a playable instrument. If they don't have the skills or desire to do the work themselves, they need to budget a few hundred dollars extra for the labor. All in all, I'm happy with the guitar. I still don't need one that big, but it's growing on me, and I'm even adjusting to the neck. It requires a slightly different technique than what I'm used to on my Benedetto with the narrower rounded neck, but I can deal with it.
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Everyone who has read a Mr Wu or Yunzhi thread has read X number of dollars need to be set aside for finishing work. Perhaps this is news to the buyer, but nothing new has been mentioned here. Many of us have purchased an 18" at $1400 and then spent another $650-$700 for professional finish work, to include full electronics, fret and nut work, including a high end pickup. No complaints from any of us, and personally I'd do it again.
There are many Gibson threads complaining of fret and nut work on brand new guitars, far more expensive than any guitar from the East. So it appears your complaints are not exclusive to guitars from China.
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No, they're not exclusive at all, unfortunately. My only real concern was that lots of people seem to go to a forum while on a specific search, and don't read all the threads. Forum search functions can be less than ideal, and I just want those people to know what they're in for. I have some concern for truth and reliability, so I don't want to endorse something that isn't perfect. Wu's guitars are a great value, but they aren't perfect in some areas, and those areas are repeatable, just like they may be from other brands. If I bought a Gibson with the issues this one had, I would be very unhappy, and return it immediately. But I went into this with my eyes wide open, and was fully prepared to deal with what I got. I'm not trying to be overly critical, just documenting what I find, for the general edification of others.
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I understand folks not wanting to overplay what these guitars are. Still, from what I've seen the reports on these are pretty much accurate and exactly what you encountered. Ditch the electronics followed by a full set up which may or may not include frets. After that you have a great instrument to play regardless of price.
That being said, people should get what they really want. If you love Gibson, you should get one even with all the QC problems recently noted. If you want perfection in construction, there are boutique models that can give you that. If your focus is on performance, how a guitar actually plays and sounds when properly set up and if you want Benedetto style construction, I don't see anything better than Chinese archtops until you get to boutique models.Last edited by Spook410; 12-23-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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Or better yet, build the Wu of your dreams and order it without electronics. Time's a wastin'. To echo what Spook said, I've owned $7k archtops, but nothing played or sounded any better than this 18" gem:
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IMHO no x, y, or z investment could turn a Yunzhi or a Wu into a Super 400.
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That's pretty obvious. Who would think or even suggest that?
Originally Posted by gcb
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I don't want a Gibson. I didn't really want this either, I just bid on a whim at a level I didn't expect to win. Again, and I don't know how often I have to say this, I'm not dissatisfied with the guitar, nor surprised by any of the issues. I'm just documenting what I find.
One thing that does stand out on this guitar, for better or worse, is that it's very lightly built. With an 18" lower bout, 3-3/8" rims, it weighs just 5.4 pounds. That's very light for the size. It's X braced, and has a sweet tone. It's getting very playable, if I can bond with the neck, and it's growing on me. The new pickup and controls won't arrive until after Christmas, but I'm hoping for a great tone with them. I have to do some fret work, several aren't seated properly and the ends need dressing, but all in good time. I'll have a few hundred dollars extra in it by the time I'm finished, but I think it would still sell for more than the total cost, if I ever decided to, depending on how much more I spend. I'm going to replace the tuners, and maybe the tailpiece, and that could be expensive, but again, all in good time. Finding one that fits and is affordable may take awhile. But I'm in no hurry.
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Well, its getting close. I made the dreaded trek across Houston to get the frets leveled and dressed. That's grunt work I just didn't want to do. It made a huge difference in the playability. Now I have the action very low for an acoustic, without any fret buzz, and it still sounds good. Got the Benedetto S6 pickup, Schatten thumbwheel controls, and new endpin jack installed, and the amplified sound is fine. It's not exactly what I'm used to, but it's growing on me. The tuners have to be replaced. The Wilkinsons on it are really bad, I can feel lots of slop between lowering and raising the pitch, and they don't hold very well. Adjustment doesn't help much. I'm not in love with gold hardware, and I may go with chrome or nickel. I've been holding off though because I'd like to replace the tailpiece. It's ok, but I'm also not in love with a Benedetto style tailpiece on this type of guitar, it's just an aesthetics issue. The hard part is finding a tailpiece with the correct mounting hole spacing and especially with the proper location and size of the hole for the endpin jack. But the tailpiece can wait, it's not that important.
I started thinking about where I wanted the strap pin on the neck end, since it came without one. But I ended up not bothering with one. The neck/fretboard extending over the body is high enough above the top so that I could get a leather bootlace under it, and I just tied it in place, and up to the strap end. It works fine. I normally put Schaller straplock pins on all my guitars, but with the endpin jack that can't be done easily on this one, so I'll dedicate my Italia strap to this guitar.
As I've said previously, I really don't need an 18" archtop, and every time I pick up my Benedetto Bambino Deluxe I'm reminded of how everything about it is near perfect, especially the neck and the size. But it won't hurt having this one around. It's going to be a fine rhythm guitar.
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