The One and Only Herb Ellis 1953 Gibson ES-175

**Durban** · 08-01-2018, 03:48 PM

ThatRhythmMan, great guitar and story, and you are so enthusiastic about it,

Thanks for the photos. You enjoy it.

**Durban** · 08-01-2018, 04:29 PM

ThatRhythmMan,

I was about 10 yo ish cant recall, i saw a cover of Herb Ellis Man with the guitar on the wall, it was a Jazz Blues Rock store owned by a Indian chap, ive never forgotten that cover i used to gaze at it wondering what type of music it was, later 20+ years i got the record, im on my 2nd ES-165.

And you have it............................ hey look after that guitar, son.

**Stringswinger** · 08-01-2018, 04:38 PM

Well we know where Herb's, Pat's and Jim's 175's are . Joe's 175 is a mystery. Joe's son, Joe Pass Junior, told me about 15 years ago that he thinks John Pisano stole it from him. John Pisano denied that in a phone conversation with me (I have a tape recording of that conversation.) A well known jazz guitarist told me off the record that John Pisano does have it ( I will not reveal the name of that guitarist here).

That guitar, which was a gift to Joe Pass in 1962 is about as iconic a jazz guitar as there is and it's whereabouts remain a mystery.

**Doctor Jeff** · 08-01-2018, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Well we know where Herb's, Pat's and Jim's 175's are . Joe's 175 is a mystery. Joe's son, Joe Pass Junior, told me about 15 years ago that he thinks John Pisano stole it from him. John Pisano denied that in a phone conversation with me (I have a tape recording of that conversation.) A well known jazz guitarist told me off the record that John Pisano does have it ( I will not reveal the name of that guitarist here).

That guitar, which was a gift to Joe Pass in 1962 is about as iconic a jazz guitar as there is and it's whereabouts remain a mystery.

That's interesting. Pisano actually played with Joe on the recording with Roy Clark issued in 1994, the year of Joe's death.

Maybe "stole" is the wrong word. Maybe he borrowed it (with Joe's approval) when Joe was ill, or in a weak moment Joe said, "Hey John, why don't you take my 175? I won't be able to take it with me."

Either way, we must assume they were not on bad terms when Joe became sick and declined.

That is a true mystery.

**ThatRhythmMan** · 08-01-2018, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Durban

ThatRhythmMan,

I was about 10 yo ish cant recall, i saw a cover of Herb Ellis Man with the guitar on the wall, it was a Jazz Blues Rock store owned by a Indian chap, ive never forgotten that cover i used to gaze at it wondering what type of music it was, later 20+ years i got the record, im on my 2nd ES-165.

And you have it............................ hey look after that guitar, son.

I have a magnetic dry erase board in my office. A printout of the cover from that album is a part of my decor. I’ve thought about recreating that photo.

**Cunamara** · 08-01-2018, 10:52 PM

I thought that Pisano was known to have Pass's last Gibson, given to him by Joe's widow. I've also heard there was a lot of disagreement and strife within Joe's families after he died, over the estate etc.

Here Pisano mentions having Joe's thnline ES-175, which I assume is the last Gibson from 1992 and Joe's Borys. I've never seen a picture of that guitar.

John Pisano | Vintage Guitar(R) magazine

**Stringswinger** · 08-02-2018, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

I thought that Pisano was known to have Pass's last Gibson, given to him by Joe's widow. I've also heard there was a lot of disagreement and strife within Joe's families after he died, over the estate etc.

John Pisano does have the one pickup Gibson that Joe was playing at the end of life. The 62 175 remains missing....

**Mike Anderson** · 08-02-2018, 12:54 PM

Weird that it's listed as "Scrapple"...here's the Discogs entry:

Herb Ellis - Texas Swings (CD, Album) at Discogs

And the Allmusic:

Texas Swings - Herb Ellis | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic

Google fail!

**Rousseau Jean Pierre** · 09-17-2019, 03:09 AM

Hi my friend.
I'm french and live in west center of France.
I am lucky because I have the same toy, 1963, with the same pick up , the same rare damper ( made by Pat farrand) and the same fantastic sound with my old Polytone Mini-brute II 1982.I use the same strings, 12 or 13, it's depends.
But I haven't got the same fingers !!!
And for me too, Herb Ellis was the best.
If you travel in France, you're welcome at home.
Jean Pierre

**MarkRhodes** · 09-17-2019, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Here's Billie's Bounce from "Texas Swings".

https://play.google.com/music/m/Tbauo3q5e5i2bkni6pyqhmpgtlm?t=Billies_Bounce_-_Herb_Ellis

I have that on CD and it also lists "Billie's Bounce" as "Scrapple from the Apple." Don't know how that happens....

**MarkRhodes** · 09-17-2019, 09:43 AM

TRM,
Wow! What a lovely guitar and piece of history! I listen to (or play something I learned from) Herb Ellis every day.
To paraphrase Pink Floyd, "Be careful with the axe, Eugene!" ;o)

**sgosnell** · 09-17-2019, 09:52 AM

Mark, I don't know how that happens, either. My CD lists it as "Billie's Bounce". I have some other CDs on which Google mixes up the titles, including some by Ella Fitzgerald especially. The CDs have the correct titles, but any time I stream them, the titles are completely wrong, and there are also others. I have no idea why.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-17-2019, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Mark, I don't know how that happens, either. My CD lists it as "Billie's Bounce". I have some other CDs on which Google mixes up the titles, including some by Ella Fitzgerald especially. The CDs have the correct titles, but any time I stream them, the titles are completely wrong, and there are also others. I have no idea why.

Hhm. Here's an Amazon link and the listing here is the same as mine. (Perhaps the error was made originally and corrected on later pressings. Or maybe it was right the first time and the error cropped up in a later pressing or re-issue.No idea, really.)
https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Swings-...gateway&sr=8-1

**Greentone** · 09-17-2019, 04:15 PM

I miss Herb! He was a great player and a humble guy.

He let me play your guitar back in '86-'87. It remains my favorite ES-175 to this day.

Cheers!

**sgosnell** · 09-17-2019, 04:45 PM

I think I bought my CD soon after it was released, but it has been a long time and I can't recall exactly. All I'm sure of is that it lists the song as "Billie's Bounce".

**citizenk74** · 09-17-2019, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Rousseau Jean Pierre

Hi my friend.
I'm french and live in west center of France.
I am lucky because I have the same toy, 1963, with the same pick up , the same rare damper ( made by Pat farrand) and the same fantastic sound with my old Polytone Mini-brute II 1982.I use the same strings, 12 or 13, it's depends.
But I haven't got the same fingers !!!
And for me too, Herb Ellis was the best.
If you travel in France, you're welcome at home.
Jean Pierre

**MarkRhodes** · 09-18-2019, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

I think I bought my CD soon after it was released, but it has been a long time and I can't recall exactly. All I'm sure of is that it lists the song as "Billie's Bounce".

I don't doubt it. I didn't buy mine so near the release date. Perhaps it's a re-issue and that's where the mistake came in.

**Seven** · 06-26-2021, 05:59 PM

Hello together,
awesome to see the original guitar of Ellis!
Can someone pls. tell me what strings he‘ve used on this beautiful 175? I’ve heard that he changed some specific strings from the original set. Is that true?
… what I can se is, that it must be a set of Thomastik Flats

thank you
have a great time

**citizenk74** · 06-26-2021, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Seven

Hello together,
awesome to see the original guitar of Ellis?
can some one tell me what strings he used on it? I’ve heard that he changed some specific strings from the original set. Is that true?
… I can se it must be a set of Thomastik Flats.

thank you
have a great time

**ThatRhythmMan** · 06-26-2021, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Seven

Hello together,
awesome to see the original guitar of Ellis?
can some one tell me what strings he used on it? I’ve heard that he changed some specific strings from the original set. Is that true?
… I can se it must be a set of Thomastik Flats.

thank you
have a great time

The last strings (still on the guitar) are Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swings. I measured the high E at .011”, but I haven’t measured the others to see if they are all consistent with the JS111 set. I could do that though.

**Doug B** · 06-26-2021, 07:59 PM

Just a side note-Bruce Forman is the caretaker of Barney's ES 350. Barney's wife gave it to him to play on long term lone.

**ThatRhythmMan** · 06-26-2021, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Just a side note-Bruce Forman is the caretaker of Barney's ES 350. Barney's wife gave it to him to play on long term lone.

I knew Bruce now had it, but how did this loan happen? The guitar sold a while back in an auction.

Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop Electric Guitar. ... (Total: 3 ) Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop | Lot #85013 | Heritage Auctions Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop | Lot #85013 | Heritage Auctions

**wintermoon** · 06-26-2021, 08:18 PM

I read the interview w/Bruce someone posted here and he said he bought it from the guy that bought it at auction

**Doug B** · 06-26-2021, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan

I knew Bruce now had it, but how did this loan happen? The guitar sold a while back in an auction.

Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop Electric Guitar. ... (Total: 3 ) Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop | Lot #85013 | Heritage Auctions Barney Kessel's Circa 1946/1947 Gibson ES-350 Sunburst Archtop | Lot #85013 | Heritage Auctions

You're right. Maybe it was sold and Forman got that person's permission? Listen to Guitarwank podcast on June 1 2021, starting at 2 minutes 38 seconds into the broadcast for the exact story.

**paulkogut** · 06-27-2021, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the pics! I had a wonderful experience hanging out and playing with Herb in the early 90's (I backed him up at a clinic and sat in a tune at his concert. I'm forever grateful to him and his manager Terry Holmes for giving me such a big opportunity when I was just starting out) One of the main pieces of advice he had was to make sure the pole piece screws on the pickup were adjusted to give you even volume across all six strings, great to have a reference of where Herb set his...

Best wishes for your music,

PK