Suhr Archtop/Sadowsky Guitars/ES-335

[trauma15]

Hello there,
I was just seeking some insightful and helpful input....
I'm trying to get some new gear obviously. I practice straight ahead jazz mainly. And i play with a jazz group and big band. I also experiment with some guthrie govan rock fusion shredding stuff. I do on occasion play rock music but it is usually more on the contemporary and intricate side.

I have found 3 guitars that I think are in my price range.
Suhr Archtop Model
Sadowsky Semihollow Model
Gibson ES-335

I have played a 335 extensively, the tone is good but i just dont feel like its right for me. i feel like theres another guitar out there that would suit me better. The suhr and the sadowsky are smaller companies and i havent played them. Although, i have played other suhr models which were the best ive ever played in my life.

I was hoping someone familiar with this semihollow type jazz sound could give me some insightful feedback. These will be plugged into a fender tube combo amp which i have to buy also! So feel free to leave a comment or recommendation I look forward to hearing from people!!
Here are the links which will hopefully be convenient...

Suhr Custom Archtop Guitars - Expanding the Experience of Tone!
Sadowsky Guitars | Archtop Color Chart

Thanks!!!
Trauma

[Bill C]

I haved played two Sadowsky Jim Hall's - *very* playable and superb build - if I was in the market for a semi-hollow guitar Sadowsky would be my first port of call. Ive not played a Suhr.

check out these links re the Sadowsky semi-hollow

ymmv ...

[trauma15]

Ive only heard great things about the sadowsky semihollows....
They sound good on youtube. Would you prefer it over a gibson es335????

Trauma

[derek]

Liking all the guitars listed, imo the Sadowsky is by far at the head of this class.

[mangotango]

Is this the kind of thing that you're thinking of??

Sadowsky Semi Hollow Model, Color "Violin Burst",

I would have one in a heartbeat.

What about the NY-SS? D'Angelico Guitars

[derek]

Is this the kind of thing that you're thinking of??

Sadowsky Semi Hollow Model, Color "Violin Burst",

I would have one in a heartbeat.

What about the NY-SS? D'Angelico Guitars

Yeah, the Sadowsky semihollow is based off of the Jimmy Bruno Archtop, and is just wonderful. You can catch several demo vids of it on sheetsofsound's youtube page.

The D'Angelicos are made in Korea still right? If so, I would say, apples and oranges. The ones I have played after Vestax were fine instruments, but are competing with Stromberg, Peerless and others at that $1000-$1300 price point. That is, unless I have missed some newer models that are higher quality.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

If you are looking for a small hollow-bodied guitar that is resistant to feedback, consider these:

Eastman El Reys: Eastman - Handcrafted Guitars and Mandolins
Benedetto Bambino: Benedetto Guitars, Inc. - The Signature of Jazz Guitar

They're hollow bodies w/o f-holes.

[mangotango]

Yeah, the Sadowsky semihollow is based off of the Jimmy Bruno Archtop, and is just wonderful. You can catch several demo vids of it on sheetsofsound's youtube page.

The D'Angelicos are made in Korea still right? If so, I would say, apples and oranges. The ones I have played after Vestax were fine instruments, but are competing with Stromberg, Peerless and others at that $1000-$1300 price point. That is, unless I have missed some newer models that are higher quality.

Well, my main squeeze is a made-in-Japan Vestax NYL5, so I guess I'm kind of biased.

However, the Sadowsky is a beaut, and if something like that had been available at a sensible price in the UK, would have featured in my search for The Guitar.

[derek]

Well, my main squeeze is a made-in-Japan Vestax NYL5, so I guess I'm kind of biased.

However, the Sadowsky is a beaut, and if something like that had been available at a sensible price in the UK, would have featured in my search for The Guitar.

I see. I agree about the Vestax DA's. I have played 3 in the past, all wonderful. I had the opportunity to buy a couple new at a store 3 hours away in St. Louis, but never pulled the trigger. Shame.

[Meggy]

Every time someone puts up a link to the Sadowsky website I end up spending several minutes trying to decide which finish option I would go for. And I can never decide...

[NSJ]

New Sadowsky Semi vs a new 335? Sadowsky each and every day. Til the cows come home, leave, and come back again. Man that's not even a decision. Not even remotely close. The funny thing is, they're priced about the same (maybe not the stock 335) which tells you how over priced and crappy Gibson has become.

[Jazzarian]

crappy Gibson has become.

Oh really? Ever see a Gibson CS336?
Buy Gibson CS-336 Figured Top Electric Guitar | Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend

Ever see a ES359?
Gibson Custom ES-359 AAA Flame Maple Semi-Hollow Electric Guitar and more Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars at GuitarCenter.com.


While were at it, how about a new Gibson L5?
Buy Gibson Custom L-5 CES Electric Guitar | Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend


Gibson makes great guitars, don't kid yourself.

[mr. beaumont]

gibson makes SOME great guitars. they also make some good guitars that aren't worth what they cost, IMHO.

sadowsky's are a really good investment--a lifer guitar, if you ask me.

suhr's are great as well, but his bread and butter are solidbodies, and what i'd call "rock" guitars. i wouldn't put his semi-hollow stuff in the same league as sadowsky for jazz.

[Jazzarian]

gibson makes SOME great guitars. they also make some good guitars that aren't worth what they cost, IMHO.

One could say that about a Benedetto as well. Especially compared to Montellone.

Is a new blonde L5 "worth" 10 grand? Probably.

[NSJ]

Oh really? Ever see a Gibson CS336?
Buy Gibson CS-336 Figured Top Electric Guitar | Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend

Ever see a ES359?
Gibson Custom ES-359 AAA Flame Maple Semi-Hollow Electric Guitar and more Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars at GuitarCenter.com.


While were at it, how about a new Gibson L5?
Buy Gibson Custom L-5 CES Electric Guitar | Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend


Gibson makes great guitars, don't kid yourself.

I used to own a 90s Heritage Std that blew a new 336 away. Essentially the same design, much better construction and sound by the Heritage. 10K for a new L5? That's terrible! Outrageous. How is a new guitar worth the same as one 40 years ago, in a time where they actually had aged woods.

Actually, I own 3 Gibsons san early 50s p90 ES-175, an early 60s L5, and a mid 70s Howard Roberts Custom. Of course, they are great guitars and, of course, Gibson made great guitars.

But now? For sure, maybe you can find a gem amidst the overpriced clunkers. But, having played both, a new 335 and a Sadowsky Semi Hollow, I stand by my original statement. The Sadowsky is clearly the better instrument, hands down. The sheets of sound guy did a rating of all semi-solids, and Sadowsky came out on top.

[derek]

I used to own a 90s Heritage Std that blew a new 336 away. Essentially the same design, much better construction and sound by the Heritage. 10K for a new L5? That's terrible! Outrageous. How is a new guitar worth the same as one 40 years ago, in a time where they actually had aged woods.

Actually, I own 3 Gibsons san early 50s p90 ES-175, an early 60s L5, and a mid 70s Howard Roberts Custom. Of course, they are great guitars and, of course, Gibson made great guitars.

But now? For sure, maybe you can find a gem amidst the overpriced clunkers. But, having played both, a new 335 and a Sadowsky Semi Hollow, I stand by my original statement. The Sadowsky is clearly the better instrument, hands down. The sheets of sound guy did a rating of all semi-solids, and Sadowsky came out on top.

Unfortunately Gibson has lost quite a bit of its reputation, but there are still good guitars being built by them today, as I have played them. However, there are also some pretty serious problems, and I have also played those.

All things being equal, I would prefer most Gibson archtops over any other brand. However, things aren't equal, and Roger Sadowsky is building instruments that are superior to Gibson in every way currently. Just my opinion of course. I can reasonably afford most any guitar I want, and I have a Norlin ES175, and Forshage Ergo (semihollow).

[Jazzarian]

Unfortunately Gibson has lost quite a bit of its reputation

I've been hearing that malarky for over 40 years now. The Norlin era ended 24 years ago. Gibson makes fine guitars these days. I bought 4 Gibsons in the 1990s and they're all defect free gems.

and Roger Sadowsky is building instruments that are superior to Gibson in every way currently. .

Hmmm, I'd put my '92 Super V CES against anything from Sadowsky. Of course it was made by Triggs and Hutchins and is a Custom Shop jewel.

Hard to top a new L5 too.

[Jazzarian]

I used to own a 90s Heritage Std that blew a new 336 away..

I played a few Heritage 535s and I think you're nuts. The CS336 body is CARVED from a single piece of wood, btw. It is very different from a ES335 and is smaller.

Most people in the know wouldn't recommend Heritage to anyone these days. They've had many quality control problems.

You really wouldn't want to compare Heritage's archtops to Gibson archtops. I've played the Super Eagle, American Eagle, Sweet 16 etc. None come remotely close to an L5, sorry. Heritage resale value, or lack thereof, should give you a clue.

[derek]

I've been hearing that malarky for over 40 years now. The Norlin era ended 24 years ago. Gibson makes fine guitars these days. I bought 4 Gibsons in the 1990s and they're all defect free gems.

Hmmm, I'd put my '92 Super V CES against anything from Sadowsky. Of course it was made by Triggs and Hutchins and is a Custom Shop jewel.

Hard to top a new L5 too.

Okay, I will give you specifics. I orded a new 175 in 2004. Came with a buzz. The tech (very good one) couldn't sort it out. I took it to the local repair guru (one of the best in the nation), and after spending hours and $100 of my $, he found there to be a problem in the bracing. Sent it back to Gibson, they took 4 months getting me another. I immediately flipped it on ebay and bought my Norlin 175 from a buddy of mine who is a pro.

This same shop had to send back approximately 1 guitar out of 7-8 due to various quality control issues. Some I saw. Tooling marks in the fretboard of a $3k Les Paul. Serious binding flaws, where the binding was significantly proud of the body, oversprayed, and gaps on an L4.

Jody Fisher ordered a Custom Wes L5. After sending it back 4 x's due to various issues, and it still not being right, he sold it. I played a new 165 3 years ago with the floater, and there was an issue with at the neck body joint. Could have just been cosmetic, but at that price, it should have never been hanging in the store.

Sadowsky doesn't make solid wood archtops (at this point) that I know of, so the L5 and Super V doesn't have any competition from Roger. I prefer my 175 to the Jim Hall, but think the JH is a wonderful instrument. You can call all that malarky (what exactly is malarky anyway?) if you wish.

[mr. beaumont]

One could say that about a Benedetto as well. Especially compared to Montellone...

i might agree--heck, i play fenders, we all know how cheaply you can make your own--but i don't think anyone would say sadowsky's instruments aren't worth the cash they go for.

[Jazzarian]

Okay, I will give you specifics. I orded a new 175 in 2004. Came with a buzz. The tech (very good one) couldn't sort it out. I took it to the local repair guru (one of the best in the nation), and after spending hours and $100 of my $, he found there to be a problem in the bracing. Sent it back to Gibson, they took 4 months getting me another. I immediately flipped it on ebay and bought my Norlin 175 from a buddy of mine who is a pro.

This same shop had to send back approximately 1 guitar out of 7-8 due to various quality control issues. Some I saw. Tooling marks in the fretboard of a $3k Les Paul. Serious binding flaws, where the binding was significantly proud of the body, oversprayed, and gaps on an L4.

Jody Fisher ordered a Custom Wes L5. After sending it back 4 x's due to various issues, and it still not being right, he sold it. I played a new 165 3 years ago with the floater, and there was an issue with at the neck body joint. Could have just been cosmetic, but at that price, it should have never been hanging in the store.

Sadowsky doesn't make solid wood archtops (at this point) that I know of, so the L5 and Super V doesn't have any competition from Roger. I prefer my 175 to the Jim Hall, but think the JH is a wonderful instrument. You can call all that malarky (what exactly is malarky anyway?) if you wish.

ES175s tend to be buzzy and they tend to eat strings. Usually a simple string change and trussrod adjustment fixes everything.

I have a blonde ES175 from 1997 and it is about as perfect as it gets.

Comparing the top of the line Heritage archtops to a Custom Shop Super V CES is a joke. Even to a run of the mill new L5. No comparison. A Super Eagle will never sound like Wes' L5. Nor will a Sadowsky with 5 ply cardboard top. For the same money, one could have a Campellone replete with solid spruce top.

My '93 Gibson SG in korina is utter perfection, as is my '98 DC Les Paul Standard Plus. You'd be hard pressed to find a flaw that wasn't my fault. I'd say their build quality is every bit as good as my PRS Custom 24.

4 guitars from the 1990s, all are of excellent build quality. Sure it's only 4 data points. Talk of outliers is just that. Show me the specific examples of Gibson defects.

PS: I had a Norlin era Les Paul from 1974. It was terrible.

[Jazzarian]

but i don't think anyone would say sadowsky's instruments aren't worth the cash they go for.

I'd be the first to ask why someone would buy a guitar with a 5 ply cardboard top for the same money as a Campellone with solid spruce top.

I've played a couple of Dale Unger's guitars with "cardboard" tops. Not bad, nice light guitar. It can't make the woody Wes sound though.

[Jazzarian]

I prefer my 175 to the Jim Hall, but think the JH is a wonderful instrument. You can call all that malarky (what exactly is malarky anyway?) if you wish.

Huh????? That is shocking. I thought today's cardboard tops would trounce yesterday's cardboard tops.

I preferred my friend's Dale Unger to my ES175, cardboard vs cardboard.

[Bill C]

I don't think it matters what a guitar is made of, or what other guitar you could buy for the same money. If it sounds great to me and feels great to play it's the right guitar for me. Some players prefer laminate, some carved, some solid - there's no better imo - it's what ever works for you.

[Jazzarian]

there's no better imo - it's what ever works for you.

Some are optimal for studio work. The same might not work in a live situation. That's what plywood is for, sounding good in noisy environments where feedback might be an big issue.

Under optimal conditions, feedback not an issue, nothing beats real carved spruce.