Fret size and string size

[Cunamara]

All of my guitars have something like medium jumbo frets and it seems like just about any gauge string works fine with them. I've never spent much time with guitars with the tiny "fretless wonder" type frets, such as many Gibsons came with. Is there a particular size of string that works better? I ask as my wife has a flattop acoustic that has bitty frets and needs new strings. Not sure what to put on it. I've got a couple sets of phosphor bronze strings around (10s, 11s and maybe a set of 12s or 13s somewhere). Lighter or heavier strings with teeny frets?

[WillMbCdn5]

I use 13-56 DR Rare roundwounds on my 51 Gibson Super 300 which has very fine low frets. I've never thought of a relationship between fret size and string gauge , I just tried various gauges until a set felt and sounded right. I have TI Swing 12-50 flatwounds on my MIK Dangelico EXL-1 which has frets close to twice the width and 1 1/2 taller than the Gibson

Will

[Peter C]

My old Japanese dreadnought has small frets and I usually put something like 12-54 strings on it, so I don't think that would be an issue. Also, when the Les Paul fretless wonder appeared, I don't think light gauge strings were even available. The main consideration is the player's hands: 11s are pretty forgiving if that's required and are just about sufficient to drive the top, I would say.

[deacon Mark]

In all my years of playing and repair I never thought about size of fret in considering strings, but I sure don't know it all. Maybe others have so?

[docbop]

For me frets are more about playing feel. I recently got rid of a Strat with the tall-skinny frets traditional Fender player dig, I could never get used to them. I like wide frets would love to try an old fretless wonder.

Strings I feel the guitar dictates, you play a guitar and it responds both in playing feel and sound to string size. I like high tension strings they feel good and guitar responds better to me solid body or hollow. I just got a Epiphone archie and it has my usual 12's and to light on this guitar. Took the guitar to a buddies to check out and first thing he said "needs heavier strings". Also guitars to me wake up and sing with the gauge strings they like. The only time I go against what the guitar wants is if I need to be bending strings.

[Dennis D]

All of my guitars have something like medium jumbo frets and it seems like just about any gauge string works fine with them. I've never spent much time with guitars with the tiny "fretless wonder" type frets, such as many Gibsons came with. Is there a particular size of string that works better? I ask as my wife has a flattop acoustic that has bitty frets and needs new strings. Not sure what to put on it. I've got a couple sets of phosphor bronze strings around (10s, 11s and maybe a set of 12s or 13s somewhere). Lighter or heavier strings with teeny frets?

I just went through this, and here's what I found w/my 2 L-7's & 1 L-4:
1. Scale length matters - - the Gibson short scale is more forgiving and will more easily accommodate both lighter or heavier strings.
2. Then comes the next critical factor - - fret size. The short scale w/also more easily accommodate thin frets.
3. But - -if you combine the long scale with skinny frets, then you'll need heavier strings.

FWIW , this is just what I've learned.

[lammie200]

I like thicker strings like 12s or 13s for the fullness in sound, but also tune down a full step.

[Woody Sound]

In all my years of playing and repair I never thought about size of fret in considering strings, but I sure don't know it all. Maybe others have so?

Well one thing is for sure, if you have high jumbo frets and very light strings, the slightest downward pressure will push notes sharp.

[Peter C]

Well one thing is for sure, if you have high jumbo frets and very light strings, the slightest downward pressure will push notes sharp.

So I'm guessing that heavy distorsion players such as Yngwie Malmsteen (sp?) are hardly even touching the fretboard. In some cases, I believe they even have scalloped boards. No personal experience.

[LtKojak]

There's no factual correlation between fret size and string gauge.

I wonder where one could entertain such an improbable idea... ?

[Matt Cushman]

The flat top guitar is often designed for lighter gauge strings. A med set is the largest set Martin tests for on their steel string guitars. You can try a high tension set but be sure to watch for any resulting rise from too much tension. I think the fret size may be less noticeable with a lighter set of strings.

[Dennis D]

There's no factual correlation between fret size and string gauge.

I wonder where one could entertain such an improbable idea... ?

There may or may not be a factual correlation between fret size and string gauge when examined by themselves. But when scale length is added to the equation, and headstock angle, I found things change.

All we changed was string gauge -- from Chrome 12's to Chrome 13's. Playability went from unacceptable to decent. The luthier set-up was the same, and all harmonics etc were accurate. Playability may not be scientifically quantifiable, or factual, but it does help to describe how the guitar performs.

I find it pretty hard to make any other conclusions.

Anyway as I said this was just my experience. If it helps someone else great !

[John A.]

All of my guitars have something like medium jumbo frets and it seems like just about any gauge string works fine with them. I've never spent much time with guitars with the tiny "fretless wonder" type frets, such as many Gibsons came with. Is there a particular size of string that works better? I ask as my wife has a flattop acoustic that has bitty frets and needs new strings. Not sure what to put on it. I've got a couple sets of phosphor bronze strings around (10s, 11s and maybe a set of 12s or 13s somewhere). Lighter or heavier strings with teeny frets?

FWIW, I have a 60s Gibson flattop with small frets (really small after having had a few grind-and-polishes). I usually use 12-56 bronze-phospher strings. I don't think frets dictate string gauge (at least not for the way I play). I'd recommend the heaviest gauge that is practical/comfortable for the player, irrespective of frets.

John

[Woody Sound]

So I'm guessing that heavy distorsion players such as Yngwie Malmsteen (sp?) are hardly even touching the fretboard. In some cases, I believe they even have scalloped boards. No personal experience.

Well the heavier the gauge, the less the problem. I wonder what gauge he uses? McLaughlin used a scalloped board for a while, and I remember in an interview he talked about how you need a very light touch. Like dancing on the strings.

[LtKojak]

There may or may not be a factual correlation between fret size and string gauge when examined by themselves. But when scale length is added to the equation, and headstock angle, I found things change.

All we changed was string gauge -- from Chrome 12's to Chrome 13's. Playability went from unacceptable to decent. The luthier set-up was the same, and all harmonics etc were accurate. Playability may not be scientifically quantifiable, or factual, but it does help to describe how the guitar performs.

I find it pretty hard to make any other conclusions.

You changed strings and you liked the added tension. I too like harder-than-average tension in my guitars, specially the nylon-stringed one.

All of this is fine and dandy, but, tell me, where the fret size has a role in this anecdote? I don't get it.

[LtKojak]

McLaughlin used a scalloped board for a while, and I remember in an interview he talked about how you need a very light touch. Like dancing on the strings.

Well, the meaning of the scalloped fretboard was for him to press the strings to get microtonal effects, like you get when you play the sitar. Not for anything the band was the Mahavishnu Orchestra!

Also, he was using .008-038 strings. Just to play in tune must've been quite a tall order to fulfill!

[Dennis D]

You changed strings and you liked the added tension. I too like harder-than-average tension in my guitars, specially the nylon-stringed one.

All of this is fine and dandy, but, tell me, where the fret size has a role in this anecdote? I don't get it.

I don't know how else to say it - the fret size was the only component that was different.

Or maybe put another way, skinny frets and a long scale dictated my having to go to heavier gauge strings. My other guitars - an L-7, L-5 & an L-4 all allow for achieving similar tension with 12's, but the skinny frets did not.

And again, this was just my experience. And since buying this guitar, I've heard other stories of guys just changing out these '50's frets.

[Cunamara]

There's no factual correlation between fret size and string gauge.

I wonder where one could entertain such an improbable idea... ?

Not looking for a formula but impressions of feel. For example, classical guitars have thick strings and often have small frets; the thickness of the string "bridges" the frets easily. With tiny frets, to me it feels like my fingertip runs into the fingerboard prematurely and it's hard to fret the note cleanly without really pressing down. Since it's my wife's guitar and she doesn't have the hand strength I do, I don't want to set her up with something hard to play. Granted, I can restring easily enough if she doesn't like it...

[vintagelove]

Frets, the bigger the better.

i can't stand little frets. They absolutely slow you down. Especially those wide flat things on old Gibsons.

[LtKojak]

I think we're talking about different things here, so let's try to agree on what exactly one mean with "skinny".



Please, choose the one you consider "skinny", please.



This is the fretwire normally used in classcical guitars: how would you classify it? Small? Skinny? Normal?

[LtKojak]

i can't stand little frets. They absolutely slow you down

I'm curious to hear HOW little frets "slow you down", as I just can't imagine something similar happening...

Care to explain?

[Robertkoa]

I like medium jumbo frets fairly tall but beefy...easier to play ...

AND fretted notes on a good guitar will sound as resonant and loud as the Nut = open strings or very close.

So with teenie weeny cute frets ( lol )..
IF fretted notes are not as full as open strings - you are losing Tone.

Generally higher gauge ( thicker ) strings do not flop around as much as thinner strings and do not need to move as much to produce full Tones.

A good set up Tech can adjust the Guitar somewhat for your favorite Gauge but I am obviously biased toward larger frets.

Try a few gauges then get a good set up and adjustment to maximize them...you will need a slightly higher action due to the low frets for 'clearance' if you are a medium to hard picker ...