How much wattage do you need?

[citizenk74]

Julian Lage and a tweed Champ. Frisell looks to have a small amp too.

I saw Julian Lage at the Musical Instrument Museum in Phoenix and while there was a mic, it sounded like the sound was coming off the stage and Julian's Champ did just fine with bass & drums. Had a similar experience with Frisell's Quartet at the Aladdin Theater in Portland in the 90's with all sound coming from the stage (Quartet had trumpet, trombone and violin). Frisell had a Boogie Subway Bus (20 watts) and you could hear the musicians talking to each other during the music, even from the balcony.

I love those quieter shows with incredible communication and expression.

Attachment 45505

Quieter shows allow the ear to maintain its normal geometry. Above a certain db level, the hammer/anvil/stirrup bones alter their alignments in order to divert energy away from the delicate inner ear. As things get louder, you have to keep turning up to maintain the same perceived level of loudness. It is a vicious cycle, an enormous waste of energy, and a danger to one of our irreplaceable senses. (Says the guy with the Marshall half-stack in the corner. Mea culpa!)

[mangotango]

My main gigging set-up is:-

Electric: Semi-acoustic guitar via pedalboard into a DV Mark Galileo 15w valve amp, matching 1 x12" Neo cab.
Acoustic: Nylon-string electro acoustic into SR Jam 100 amp, 100 solid state watts.

The DV Mark I run with the gain on no more than 2/10; I've never needed to turn the volume up much above half for any gig.
The SR Jam I run with the channel volume on 7-8/10, the master generally the same.

This arrangement, with a few tweaks according to the venue, has worked for playing to 30 people in a pub or a couple of hundred outdoors, with a band comprising guitar/bass guitar/sax/drums and playing funky stuff and reggae as well as standards, i.e. the drummer isn't using a tiny jazz kit.

Interesting the direct comparison between valve and solid state. More watts rather than fewer would normally be my watchword, but this set-up has worked well for me for a while now. If I were going to change anything....I'd take a line out to the PA to support the acoustic.

[jzucker]

regardless of guitarists' preference to play quiet house concerts and such, this gig wouldn't have worked with a deluxe reverb. With a deluxe, Sryker's guitar would have been singing in that larry carlton type of sound instead of bensonesque. And yeah, it's nice to play quiet but the reality is that you don't always have that choice. Byron Landham (Bio - Byron Wookie Landham) is one of the best drummers in the biz as was the rest of the band (Jared Gold on organ, Mike Lee on saxophone). I wouldn't dream of asking Bryon to play quieter. A few weeks ago, I was in NYC at the 55 bar sitting literally 5 feet away from Lenny White playing drums. He's LOUD.

Are *YOU* going to ask Lenny to turn it down?

And while the gig with Lenny was louder than I was comfortable with (i wore earplugs), the Dave Stryker band was not so loud it was hurting my ears. And there was plenty of expression and communication! Other than the saxophonist, the band was not mic'd. The majority of gigs I've been on and I've seen in NY, the band is not mic'd other than a horn player or vocalist.

You have to be prepared to play at any volume and that means a champ or even a deluxe may not cut it but I suppose before the gig, you know the situation so you can bring a smaller amp if you know that's going to work. Many guitarists I know in NYC had their deluxe reverbs modified with a bigger output transformer and are running 6L6 tubes to get closer to 40w than 22w of the stock amp.

And more and more guys like Bob Devos and Vic Juris have switched over to class D amps. They both use a Fuchs jazz classic which mates a fender style tube preamp to a class D output section.

[MaxTwang]

TBH I wouldn't have asked him to turn down, I would have walked out (as I've done many times). I've heard enough good live music to skip a show that's uncomfortable; a Twin on 5 is not enjoyable (or needs new tubes).

Loud != enjoyable. loud == pain, ringing in ears, hearing damage, etc.

[jzucker]

Dave Stryker is a good friend of mine and so was the saxophonist Mike Lee so I wouldn't have walked out even if it was too loud. The band was great, it sounded wonderful and wasn't uncomfortably loud. It just wasn't a situation a deluxe reverb or 50w SS head would have worked in.

TBH I wouldn't have asked him to turn down, I would have walked out (as I've done many times). I've heard enough good live music to skip a show that's uncomfortable; a Twin on 5 is not enjoyable (or needs new tubes).

Loud != enjoyable. loud == pain, ringing in ears, hearing damage, etc.

[rpjazzguitar]

I can only offer my experience.

I regularly play an octet (4 horns, gpbd) in a room that's maybe 120x60 with high ceilings.

I use a Roland JC55. This is 25x2 watts (two 25w amps, each powering an 8" speaker.

It will go as loud as I ever want to play. That is, it will go loud enough to blast myself out, unless, somehow, I could be far away from it on the bandstand. My feeling is, if I need to be louder than that, there ought to be a PA.

The issue is stage volume and, as somebody above pointed out, the volume affects the quality of your hearing, and not in a good way. Not in the moment and not for your old age.

I have a louder amp, but it hasn't been out of the closet in a long time.

Nobody ever complains that I'm not loud enough, or that my tone sucks.

I once played a medium size room (maybe 35x70, roughly) using a 12 watt Crate practice amp on a ledge about 6 feet off the floor behind the band. I left a Boogie in the car that night.

OTOH, I tried to play a loud jam last week with the Crate and it didn't get close to being loud enough. That was with drumset, multiple percussion players, horns and loud keys. I'd never want to gig that loud, though. I do think the Roland would have been loud enough. Might get a little "blare" (my term for what happens when everything is cranked too high) from the Roland, so maybe some people wouldn't find that acceptable.

[Cunamara]

Well, Jack is right for his gigging situations. I'm not good enough and/or known enough to be getting called up by jazzers needing a guitarist in random situations, so I think I'm safe from the equipment point of view with my current rigs.