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I've heard many stories over the years of strange things at Gibson, some being amazing. For example, Pete Moreno told me of the day Ted McCarty had him take many hundreds of PAFs to the dump since Gibson was no longer using them. Pete regrets not keeping them.
Pete received a ton of stuff from Gibson during the Nashville move. This includes parts for guitars and mandolins going back to the 1920s.
Today Pete got a truckload of wood from 225 Parsons. The building will be celebrating its 100th anniversary in a few weeks. They cleaned out a massive amount of storage items in preparation. Pete got a lot of it, as much as he could haul in his large pickup. He showed me.
There were many unfinished solid bodies without necks. I stopped counting at 90. These were Gibsons and Heritages. There were close to as many necks, maybe a third being multi-laminate archtop necks. Also, there were maybe 10 assembled guitars without hardware that had deep scratches, were over sanded or had moderate dings on them.
The most interesting things were the jigs and clamp stations. Some were from Heritage and some from Gibson. One said "Les Paul Jr new model" and another said Flying V". These were old, old. A lot of the equipment was equally old but unidentifiable.
All of these items were heading for a large set of dumpsters. Most will now go into Pete's wood burning stove this winter and for the next few following ones. He will complete some of the guitars, particularly the ones nearly done.
All of this waste must contribute to the overhead in building guitars. And it's a shame, too. Much of that wood was highly figured.
It was emotional for Pete to sort through this stuff. He began working at Gibson when he was a teen and had a solid reputation with them. For example, he did most of the Charlie Christian pickup work in special runs and handled complex binding tasks. When Gibson left Kalamazoo, Pete was in charge of warranty work for Gibson for two years. Now he's 76 and still hasn't slowed down. He spent a lot of time sorting through the old jigs today, trying hard to identify as many as he could. I enjoyed spending that time with his as he told his history.
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08-26-2017 01:17 PM
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Fantastic story Mark!
Your being in Kalamazoo has let you develop a Gibson connection that many of us envy.
The American middle west has spawned two of my favorite enterprises, Gibson guitars and Harley-Davidson motorcycles. IMO, those two iconic brands represent the best in American exceptionalism.
Keep the stories coming. If nothing else, this forum will serve as a long term repository of information regarding archtop guitars, the finest musical instrument in human history.
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Wow how I'd love to have one of those " 10 assembled guitars without hardware that had deep scratches, were over sanded or had moderate dings on them." Geeze. What would it take to buy one of those assembled instruments?
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Unless you're an experienced luthier with a functioning, well assorted workshop with power tools, putting together such bad treated leftovers, even it you do an excellent job, those instruments have very little appreciation and monetary value on the market, and they will lose against a much worse but vintage instrument every single time.
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
HTH,Last edited by LtKojak; 08-27-2017 at 03:11 AM.
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I doubt he will ever have time to finish them off, but he intends to try.
I have never known him to sell partially finished guitars.
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Last edited by Marty Grass; 08-27-2017 at 09:55 AM.
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My guess is that most of these will be firewood.
There is a Golden Eagle and a H-550 body without necks that could be nice working instruments.
Originally Posted by LtKojak
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I think it sounds like some fun project players. Having built a ES125, 68 SG, and electric cello out of pieces you are never out of money if the carcass is low priced to free. Everything you put on from pickups to tuners can be used on something else. What you wind up with can be something unique that sounds great and has interesting history. Even the battle scars can be part of the vibe and certainly reduce the pressure of pristine. It sounds like there are enough parts to make some interesting mutants too and I hope it doesn't all go into the shop stove. If he needs help I'm sure a few of us will pay shipping on some pieces to save them from the fire and have something to whittle on in the winter. Put me on the list!
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I second that! Originally Posted by Cavalier
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i would gladly send Pete a half cord of "firewood" for a trade on a Gibson archtop, that is unfinished, nicked up and has been touched by one of the greats.. It would be great wall art. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
JD
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Would be a shame to (mis)use half finished instruments - no matter what their condition is - as fire wood
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Absolutely ! All this waste contributes to the cost of building anything. The founder and CEO of a company whose trailers I represented said he'd tell his manufacturing people: " You can keep all the profits we make every year - - just give me the waste in trade ! " He said when they finally came to realize that wasn't so far-fetched, he knew they were finally on the same page. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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Pete's workshop is a pretty large pole barn sort of thing. He has heated it with guitar wood for a very long time, supplementing with felled trees in the area. Every Thursday morning he goes to Heritage and picks up "firewood". It was his last run when he picked up that huge volume of discards.
Pete got 10 Crest bodies years ago, $10 a piece. He has built them more like a 355 for better fret access. He still has at least one body left.
The point is, he'll never use all of the guitar parts he has there. There are tons of them- flattops, archtops, solids- as well as mandolins. He'll likely sell them with the rest of his business equipment IF he ever retires.
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That's a great looking guitar!
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It is a great looking guitar. Pete thinks few sold because of the price, the floating pickups, and the 330 fret access problem.
Years ago, maybe 10, he was driving on a country road in the morning and saw a lady trying to put up a garage sale sign. He stopped and helped her. She invited him to look around at the stuff even though the sale didn't start until later than morning.
Pete found a stack of 10 Crest bodies. He asked where they came from. The lady said she found them in the attic when she moved in. Pete asked what the price was for them. She wanted $100. Sold.
A lot of work went into building just the body. When you add the pickguard, tailpiece and floating pickups, this was an expensive item.
The last couple of years I thought of having Pete build one for me with humbuckers and a 355 neck. I just never made the leap.
Originally Posted by TOMMO
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That looks AMAZING. I would love to find a guitar like that. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Pete's workshop is a pretty large pole barn sort of thing. He has heated it with guitar wood for a very long time, supplementing with felled trees in the area. Every Thursday morning he goes to Heritage and picks up "firewood". It was his last run when he picked up that huge volume of discards.
Pete got 10 Crest bodies years ago, $10 a piece. He has built them more like a 355 for better fret access. He still has at least one body left.
The point is, he'll never use all of the guitar parts he has there. There are tons of them- flattops, archtops, solids- as well as mandolins. He'll likely sell them with the rest of his business equipment IF he ever retires.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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well it is just one email away 1969 Gibson Crest Silver > Guitars Electric Semi-Hollow Body | Gary's Classic Guitars Originally Posted by rio
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How about fashioning some unfinished solidbodies into cutting boards, etc. Lotsa crafty things you can do with them there perts.
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Twenty years ago I had a chance to buy a gold Rosewood Crest at the old Chicago Music Exchange location for just under 4k. Lovely beast. I really like the floating mini hum buckers. There are a couple examples on eBay that belong to Gary's Classic Music, the silver Crest is the cheapest by a couple grand. Those guitars will never lose their resale value being they are BRW and only a hundred or so were made. If anyone could take a Crest body and make you a 355 style guitar it'd be Pete Moreno. I still marvel and the transformation he performed on my L5P...
Big
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 08-28-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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" For example, Pete Moreno told me of the day Ted McCarty had him take many hundreds of PAFs to the dump since Gibson was no longer using them. Pete regrets not keeping them."
not saying he's lying, but I'm having a hard time believing this.
as the early 60's rolled on many guitars came w/1 PAF and 1 Pat # as the old PAF's were used up.
I can't believe once the patent was granted they threw PAF's out because of a little sticker on the bottom.
just imo.....
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I'm still trying to recover from the thought of tone woods being used in a wood stove... I'll have to wait a while to be traumatized over the fate of the PAFs...
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sometimes over time people confuse things that happened back in the day.
maybe what happened is once they stopped using P-90s in guitars McCarty told him to toss those.
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Oh man. Knowing that is not good for my wallet. Originally Posted by fws6
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You are absolutely right. I've given those out for Christmas presents for several years in a row. The mahogany and the maple can be hand stained and finished with oil then buffed. They are great presents.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Pete is not one to exaggerate, but I wasn't there. I don't know why he'd make it up. Walking through his storage area I see tons of old Gibson necks, tuners, tailpieces, and a few bodies. That was before last week's haul.
When I was in the Air Force, the military had an almost uncountable number of excess flight jackets made of leather. Vietnam was over and the style changed. The government could not sell them to any retailer as surplus due to a contract made that protected the manufacturer from having to compete in its civilian leather jacket market with military surplus. The solution was to dig a very large hole and bury them, many hundreds of them, if not thousands, all of them unworn. The PAF story sounds similar.
A band mate of mine got a LP Custom for almost nothing. His mother worked for Gibson. A screwdriver dinged the guitar. Gibson took off the hardware, sawed the body in half, and gave it to her for firewood.
They put a couple of dowels in the body and glued the two halves together. His mother worked in finishing and buffing. The result was a Black Beauty for the cost of some parts, which probably cost next to nothing. While I wasn't there for the PAF story, I got to play the LP Custom quite a bit.
Originally Posted by wintermoon
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That, friends, is luscious. I'd play that thing 'til she begged ... for more. Good lord. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 08-28-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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