Finish wearing off my Gibson ES-125

**Little Jay** · 08-08-2017, 07:58 AM

Since I got my ES-125 I play it daily and gig a lot with it. High temperatures and sweat caused the already cracked finish to come off:

I think it looks pretty cool, but should I somehow preserve it? Refinish? Light spray over?

**Franz 1997** · 08-08-2017, 08:34 AM

I've had the same problem on my 50s gibson. I think it looks cool too, but trouble is once it starts falling off, it tends to carry on falling off. One possible solution is to use a 'flash coat' of a little nitro lacquer which has been thinned out with a lot of acetone; the acetone re-dissolves the old lacquer and avoids that 'refinished' new look.
You still have the checking and lacquer cracks, but a little less obviously.

But I'd be tempted to live with that amount of wear, so long as it doesn't get much worse.

**TOMMO** · 08-08-2017, 09:19 AM

Wouldn't be an issue with a solidbody but with a hollowbody I'd be scared to harm the wood bare as it is and exposed to more humidity, sweat and what have you....

**Cavalier** · 08-08-2017, 11:49 AM

Those guitars are pretty stable. The finish had been largely removed on the pieces of mine when I got it so I finished stripping it in the rebuild and didn't get around to the refinish for 10-15 years. It stayed in tune and in fact the truss rod neck is really stable but I don't use heavy strings. Anything you do will probably affect value, you won't hurt it by playing it till it all falls off or you can accept it's a player and refinish.

**wintermoon** · 08-08-2017, 11:55 AM

I wouldn't touch it.

**wintermoon** · 08-08-2017, 12:11 PM

p.s. looks like a crack below the chipping running off the binding, you might want to check that.

**JazzNote** · 08-08-2017, 01:21 PM

It's the spot where the guitar rests on the players body, so it might get moist and dry again and again causing the wood to age fast if it's not protected.

If it was my guitar i'd protect it somehow, maybe even have a pro refinish the exposed area. My concern would be more to ensure it's functionality by harming the wood as little as possible, than to keep it's value.

**Little Jay** · 08-08-2017, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

p.s. looks like a crack below the chipping running off the binding, you might want to check that.

Yes it is a crack, but it doesn't go through, so I guess it's just the outer veneer layer. I already rubbed in some diluted white wood glue with a wet finger. Seems stable.

**Little Jay** · 08-08-2017, 05:34 PM

Thanks for all the tips and insights!

Well, the guitar already is a player (as you all might know it came to me with a humbucker) so keeping it original or preserving its value is not my greatest concern. This guitar gets played a lot and has lots of new dings and dongs since I got her.

I think I will observe it a little while and if it really gets worse I think the flash coat might be a good idea, just a little spray over with diluted nitro.

(Btw, I discovered a great way to retouch fresh new dings: they have this annoying 'white' appearance of the cracked nitro, but a drop of lacquer thinner put on it with a fine pencil will soften the nitro, reflow it and once the thinner evaporates it will harden perfectly again!)

**JazzNote** · 08-09-2017, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

(Btw, I discovered a great way to retouch fresh new dings: they have this annoying 'white' appearance of the cracked nitro, but a drop of lacquer thinner put on it with a fine pencil will soften the nitro, reflow it and once the thinner evaporates it will harden perfectly again!)

Great discovery, thanks!

**Little Jay** · 08-09-2017, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by JazzNote

Great discovery, thanks!

Well, to be honest: I saw it in a StewMac video ;-)

**whiskey02** · 08-09-2017, 06:23 PM

Don't do anything to it until it needs a refret, then play the sh!t out of it again. I hope there's NO finish on it and it needs another refret the day after your funeral.

**neatomic** · 08-09-2017, 06:41 PM

the trouble with now cool relic wear with finish removed... is that dirt and gunk accumulates in the grain of the wood...also is no longer insoluble to moisture...which is a wood killer! rot!!

always hard to decide if a guitar should be kept as is, or be redone...but if you are looking to preserve the guitar, then a complete back refinish may be in order...

also most cracks like that, need cleats...not just some diluted glue...think of it as a river with tremendous force pushing forward...eventually that crack will hit the tailpin

lovely guitar, but even the finest string instruments need proper restoration... before it's too late

cheers

**Little Jay** · 08-10-2017, 02:56 PM

Thanks for the insides neatomic!

Problem with the crack is that it couldn't be cleated, since it doesn't go thru, it's only the outer layer of the laminate.

I hear you about protecting you the wood agains moisture. It's a very vulnerable spot for that! Under my armpit, haha. Especially longs gigs on hot stages I sweat right thru my shirt there, probably why the finish deteriorates so quickly on that spot.

I think I will try the flash coat (have it done...)!

**neatomic** · 08-10-2017, 04:04 PM

glad you are looking into repair

just want to add-

even though (now) the crack may just be in top layers of the laminate, the exposed weak spot/crack will eventually permeate through all layers..if not just a crack directly through the laminate layers from top to bottom, then a horizontal spreading of troubles..between layers...not good!

secondly you can already see the removed finish along the binding...on both sides of the crack....unprotected, that wood will eventually separate from the binding

lastly, to just cover any mold/mildew damage already in wood with flash/overspray, will just allow the damage to continue from the inside out...make sure the wood is thoroughly cleaned up before applying any refinish!

cheers

ps- the fact that the binding still looks in good shape even with the missing finish butting it, is a testament to how well those guitars were put together in the first place!!...many vintage guitars suffer from all forms of binding deterioration..and for lesser reasons!

**darkwaters** · 08-10-2017, 07:37 PM

Character.

**Greentone** · 08-10-2017, 08:39 PM

IIRC, the wood on the back of that guitar is 3-ply mahogany. I bet that the crack is just the top veneer. With the mid-layer of the laminate being a cross-grain ply, I also bet that the crack will never go through. Gluing the crack, rather than cleating, is probably the solution--but check it with a reliable luthier if you aren't certain.

I love Gibson ES-125 guitars. IMO, they sound superb--often better than ES-175 guitars. That being said, I'd not worry over-much about preserving the long-term investment value of the guitar. I'd be inclined to have somebody with some experience in repairing nitro finishes do a repair job on that back in order to stop damage to the wood of a guitar that you use steadily.

**Cavalier** · 08-10-2017, 10:13 PM

The glue to use isn't the white stuff which isn't moisture proof. It is superglue which will wick into the crack and can be layered. It took me forever to accept this but the polyester finishes on Ovations are patched this way. Or epoxy, the mystery ingredient the top violin guys whisper about in hushed tones when nothing else will work. I agree with Greentone though, that crack won't go through but the dirt will stack up.

When I finally refinished mine I went for a violin style varnish because they wear without cracking for centuries and I hate to spray anything. The saving grace of Gibson laminates is they used waterproof glue on the layers. I heard about a 125 that floated for over a month in a flooded basement, was tossed in a corner to dry then rebooted.