Setup - String 5: Frets 7 - 11

**DanielleOM** · 07-30-2017, 01:11 PM

It seems I have encountered several guitars where the area referenced in the subject line has been problematic (very slight buzz) even though the rest of the guitar neck will play well.

I was just wondering if others typically find this area of the neck to be a little difficult. (or has it just been the way my luck of the draw has been going)

Danielle

**deacon Mark** · 07-30-2017, 01:40 PM

Lots of things to consider. High fret or low fret, relief in the neck, and what is your action at fret 12 high and low e. Potentially bad string but unlikely, could be how string sits on the nut and saddle.

**docbop** · 07-30-2017, 02:08 PM

I've had issue but frets 1 and 2 on low E and A strings. I worked around the problem for a long time and finally took to repair guy and he made a new nut. That helped get rid of 95% of the issue still get a buzz now and then.

I bought an old Ibanez a few months back with problem like you talking about. Again took to repair guy and he did a setup and replaced nut and it cleared up most the problem, but still some there. If I really loved this guitar I might consider having the fretboard plane'd to level out any unevenness it gained over the decades, but that is an expensive repair because refretting is involved.

**DanielleOM** · 07-30-2017, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by deacon Mark

Lots of things to consider. High fret or low fret, relief in the neck, and what is your action at fret 12 high and low e. Potentially bad string but unlikely, could be how string sits on the nut and saddle.

Thank you Mark.

I think the action on the 5th string at the 12th fret is about 5/64" perhaps a hair less. (Using my home made scale I drew on the back of a business card.) I just got the guitar back and was assured the frets were just leveled and perfect. Perhaps that 5th string is sitting a little low in the bridge saddle.

This is the first time I had round wound strings in an acoustic archtop for quite sometime. I have been using flatwound strings in recent years. I find I am very sensitive to any buzz from the round wound strings now.

Perhaps I should order a tool for measuring. I think it's getting harder to read my home made scale as time goes on.

**DanielleOM** · 07-30-2017, 04:13 PM

I get the impression it takes a little bit of work to change the slot depth in an ebony archtop bridge, when one slot is too low. I am debating if I should have this taken care of now while I am still debating on string type. I thinking it all may have to be reworked again if I change later to flatwound strings.

I would probably change from a D'addario EJ21 12 - 52 set to a La Bella Jazz Flat 20-PL 11 - 50 set.

**neatomic** · 07-30-2017, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by DanielleOM

I get the impression it takes a little bit of work to change the slot depth in an ebony archtop bridge, when one slot is too low. I am debating if I should have this taken care of now while I am still debating on string type. I thinking it all may have to be reworked again if I change later to flatwound strings.

I would probably change from a D'addario EJ21 12 - 52 set to a La Bella Jazz Flat 20-PL 11 - 50 set.

actually its not a big deal at all...the top of the saddle is sanded down a tiny bit..with attention to keeping the correct radius, and the other 5 slots are then slightly (re)deepened to match...an experienced luthier could do it in minutes

cheers

ps- in the meantime you could raise the saddle on the low E side a tad and see if that gets rid of the problem...just for troubleshooting purposes

**sgosnell** · 07-30-2017, 09:45 PM

A wooden saddle is one of the easiest fixes on a guitar. It does take some care, like anything else, but it's certainly not difficult or time consuming.

**DanielleOM** · 07-31-2017, 11:25 AM

I am beginning to think I should just try the flat wound strings on it. I am thinking a very slight buzz that may not be noticed with flatwound strings will stand out like sore thumb with round wound strings. Any truth to that theory?

**Greentone** · 07-31-2017, 11:29 AM

Danielle,

One of my two Gretsch CA 6120 guitars ('64 and '67) had a buzz like that. It turned out to be a high fret at fret six. Easy fix. Like your guitar, it was not noticeable with flatwounds, but really jumped out with roundwound strings.

For years, I got by through introduction of some relief on the neck. I backed off of the trussrod by about a half-turn.

Before I sold the guitar, I went ahead and had the fret dressed. Voila!

**coolvinny** · 07-31-2017, 01:17 PM

What is "string 5"? Is that the A string or the B string?

I sometimes get very mild buzzing on the B string, but it seems to work itself out.

**DanielleOM** · 07-31-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by coolvinny

What is "string 5"? Is that the A string or the B string?

I sometimes get very mild buzzing on the B string, but it seems to work itself out.

The A string.

**neatomic** · 07-31-2017, 03:32 PM

flatwounds should be less buzzy..yes...but within reason...if the slot is really deep, even a flat will buzz

a high fret usually just makes the fret right above it buzz...not usually a bunch of frets..like the 7-10 the op mentions

try putting soft pencil graphite in saddle slot of A string...

cheers

**sgosnell** · 07-31-2017, 03:43 PM

I don't think graphite will raise the string enough. If it were me, I would start with the saddle and make sure all the slots were cut evenly and correctly. If that didn't help, my second option would be loosening the trussrod just a touch, maybe an eighth of a turn, to get a little more relief, and maybe another eighth if that didn't help. But since it's only one string that is buzzing, my bet would be on the saddle slot.

**neatomic** · 07-31-2017, 03:55 PM

yeah well i outlined what i think needs to be done ^...but if op is experimenting to see/troubleshoot, the graphite is always worth a shot...just like giving the trussrod a turn (tho i don't thinks thats really the issue)

cheers

**DanielleOM** · 07-31-2017, 05:01 PM

I tried raising the action to 7/64 on the bass side and I still was getting the problem. I found there was improvement if I fretted the string much much harder than is reasonable, but I still sometimes hear something a little odd.

(I lowered it back to 5/64. It's been a very long time since I have used these EJ21 strings. Not sure if this is a string issue, fret issue or perhaps something loose)

I understand they re-leveled last week and the frets should be perfect. (The luthier has a very good reputation.)

I think at this point I should just plan on returning to the store and see if they can find anything. It's about an hour and 20 minutes away from me.

(It just drives me a little crazy that I managed to pick this up only a week ago and not notice the severity of the problem when I checked it out at the shop after it was last worked on.) Perhaps I was noticing the good stuff at the time.

**rio** · 07-31-2017, 06:14 PM

With low action, that is where the neck will often buzz if the neck has relief. This is why I like a flat neck with no relief - you can get much lower action without buzz assuming that you have very good fret work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**deacon Mark** · 07-31-2017, 06:38 PM

If you raise the action 2/64and still got the the buzz is has nothing to do with the fret or truss rod. I would first change the string and if you still get the sound go up from .42 to say .44 and see what happens. If no buzz then this is a nut/bridge slot problem. I also want to point out that a some level most strings will buzz depending on how hard you strum and the action. Also remember it is not a prefect world sometimes things buzz and we it can be a real PIA.

**neatomic** · 07-31-2017, 07:01 PM

agree deacon mark...a string change is always recommended...strings can behave in inexplicable ways...many a dissatisfaction has been remedied thru a simple string replacement..regardless, if the troubling string is brand new...

cheers

**sgosnell** · 07-31-2017, 10:58 PM

It's possible that the buzz is coming from somewhere other than the string, or from another string. It may be resonance, which is causing something to vibrate, and on an archtop there are countless possibilities. The usual suspect is a pickup, they're notorious for vibrating/buzzing, but that's only the first place to look, and the search can be long and difficult.

**DanielleOM** · 08-01-2017, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

It's possible that the buzz is coming from somewhere other than the string, or from another string. It may be resonance, which is causing something to vibrate, and on an archtop there are countless possibilities. The usual suspect is a pickup, they're notorious for vibrating/buzzing, but that's only the first place to look, and the search can be long and difficult.

They changed the strings when they did the setup for me. So I don't think that is the issue. I think they changed from Cleartone to the EJ21 set. I noticed this before with the Cleartone set. The guitar is a very bright sounding acoustic archtop. I wonder if it naturally amplifies any high frequency buzz.

Not sure if I would get pickup rattle with that one. It has a pickguard mounted SD JS style mini humbucker. Thumbwheel pots under pickguard.

**sgosnell** · 08-01-2017, 08:29 AM

Well, it's impossible to say from here without actually touching the guitar, but there are lots of things that can buzz sympathetically on an archtop. Too many to try to list. And it's not certain that's the problem, but it should be investigated, just to be sure. Good luck with your search.

**DanielleOM** · 08-01-2017, 05:42 PM

I went for a long drive today and got another opinion on this guitar. It would seem that everything is OK. I have come to the conclusion that after playing flatwounds for a several years, I had really forgotten how the D'addario EJ21 nickel plated round wound strings sound on a lively acoustic archtop guitar.

I think it's appropriate to maybe experiment with strings a little, and give this guitar more time to settle in a little. I think the store only had it a week or two before I took it home.