Variations in Gibson cutaway binding width.

[Ren]

The 2014 L5 Premiers are actually carved the same in the cutaway as the recent L5CES's; both measure around 3 3/4". The binding in the cutaway in the L5 Premier does not completely cover the thicker top wood, but leaves a little gap of top wood above the rim. It's hard to see this on Vinny's sunburst L5P, but it is apparent on my natural L5P. I suspect that when Gibson decided to do a run of these, they didn't want to change the top carve from the standard L5 CES or Wes, so they just made the cosmetic change of not thickening the binding in the cutaway.

[Hammertone]

The 2014 L5 Premiers are actually carved the same in the cutaway as the recent L5CES's; both measure around 3 3/4". The binding in the cutaway in the L5 Premier does not completely cover the thicker top wood, but leaves a little gap of top wood above the rim. It's hard to see this on Vinny's sunburst L5P, but it is apparent on my natural L5P. I suspect that when Gibson decided to do a run of these, they didn't want to change the top carve from the standard L5 CES or Wes, so they just made the cosmetic change of not thickening the binding in the cutaway.

That's hilarious. Makes one wonder why they bothered to call it an L-5P instead of an L-5C. Higher price? Please post a photo of this aspect of the cutaway if you can. I played a blonde prototype L-5P at NAMM four years ago, and remember it as being a really nice guitar with a great neck, but I didn't check the cutaway and don't have any pix of it.

Not easy to find pix that illustrate your point, but here's a shot of another L-5P, sold by one of our esteemed members in 2016, that does so. How about that! Gibson used this approach on a bunch of L-7C archtops after changing the style of the carve itself, sometime into the early-mid-'50s.

[Hammertone]

I’m sure this has been covered before….

So it has, and so much for my memory. Ha!
From that thread, here is a shot of an old L-5P from the net, that clearly shows the original style of a '39 with what I call a "P-style" cutaway carve, and the photo Ren posted of his '14 L-5P. There must be at least five people in the world who care about this, and none of them work at Gibson:

[vinnyv1k]

The old Gibson top carves look so much better IMO.

[jschiele]

I've seen a 1954 L7-C that had the newer non-carved, thick binding style cutaway so I'm guessing the change took place between '52 and '54. Anyone have a picture of a '53 they could post?

[vinnyv1k]

This 2014 is not a true L5P. Another Gibson shortcut. Note the spruce showing also at the binding. A real L5P was not built like this.

[Socraticaster]

Does this mean that my '52 L-7C in the original posting is more properly called a L-7P, despite the label identifying it as the former?

[Hammertone]

Does this mean that my '52 L-7C in the original posting is more properly called a L-7P, despite the label identifying it as the former?

No. I use the term "P-style carve" as my own short-hand way to differentiate the style of carve itself, not the style of binding. Gibson used the "P" designation for Super 400 / L-5 / L-7 / L-12 models when they acquired cutaways. I I think Gibson production records from the '42 to '47 for any of these models are not particularly public. There's a book with pix of the ledger pages out there. I have some production info for pre-war S-400, S-400P, L-5 and L-5P models, but not for pre-war L-7, L-10 and L-12 models.

[vinnyv1k]

Bro, I could be very happy with that. I'd rename it (like I did with the ES170 JD signature model) to an L 4.9 JD signature model..

Shipping box, popcorn, and headstock pillows on standby. I am currently at closet capacity max. When Rita Red returns from Gibson something must hit the dusty trail otherwise it is off to the Russian front for me per the house Nazi.

[Socraticaster]

Here's a pretty neat looking guitar with the L-7P designation. Google search turned up a few others, as well, though none as unique as this one.
1948 Gibson L-7P

[Geechnyc]

I've seen a 1954 L7-C that had the newer non-carved, thick binding style cutaway so I'm guessing the change took place between '52 and '54. Anyone have a picture of a '53 they could post?

Not quite, but here is my (late) 1953 FON that bears a (likely January) 1954 serial number:

[Socraticaster]

Some 1954 guitars - they all seem to still have the symmetrical binding at this point:

Vintage 1954 Gibson L5-C | Vintage, Used Electric Guitars | Wildwood Guitars


L-5 Guitars | Fretted Americana Inc.


1954 Gibson L-7C


Gibson ES-5 Sunburst 1954 | Reverb


Gibson L-7C 1954 Sunburst | Reverb

[vinnyv1k]

Not quite, but here is my (late) 1953 FON that bears a (likely January) 1954 serial number:

Interesting you can see the top and back protruding at the binding just like my present day L5P.

[Geechnyc]

Yes, I did not recognize that as such (thought it was coincidentally straight laquer checking) until I saw your pictures and understood what it really was.

[Hammertone]

It appears that when Gibson moved from the "P"-style carve to the "C"-style carve, they moved forward with deluxe fat binding for the L-5C (and related electric models). The L-7C continued to get skinnier binding for some period of time - it simply followed the contour of the top.

This makes sense, given the way Gibson thought about differentiating between its more fancy and less fancy models (L-5 and L-7). Same guitar, but one is loaded with plastic, dead sea-shells, gold-plating and more, while the other is not.

As far as labels go, Joe V. mentions a quantity of 39 L-7P-labelled instruments for '48, replaced with L-7C labels in '49. Makes sense to me, as my notes indicate the "P" designation on the L-5 ended in '48, replaced with L-5C labels in '49.

[floatingpickup]

I've seen a 1954 L7-C that had the newer non-carved, thick binding style cutaway so I'm guessing the change took place between '52 and '54. Anyone have a picture of a '53 they could post?

I have an L5CES with a 1952 s/n but it has original Alnico pickups, so I always consider the guitar to have left the factory in 1953. I guess it was probably carved in 1952 and completed a little later, as a '52 would have had p90's (I know the pickups are original because my father purchased it new with the Alnicos). In any case, it comes from the 1952-1954 period you are talking about and it appears to have the "P" style carve.
Keith

[whiskey02]

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but Heritage guitars can have very thick binding at the cutaway. I don't like the look at all.

[Hammertone]

I have an L5CES with a 1952 s/n but it has original Alnico pickups, so I always consider the guitar to have left the factory in 1953. I guess it was probably carved in 1952 and completed a little later, as a '52 would have had p90's (I know the pickups are original because my father purchased it new with the Alnicos). In any case, it comes from the 1952-1954 period you are talking about and it appears to have the "P" style carve. Keith

Nothing Gibson did surprises me.

Your dad's L-5CES is way cool, as is his '60s non-cut L-5. I remember playing both of them when you and Glen did your "Gibson day" event way back when.

[floatingpickup]

Nothing Gibson did surprises me.

Your dad's L-5CES is way cool, as is his '60s non-cut L-5. I remember playing both of them when you and Glen did your "Gibson day" event way back when.

That's nice that you remember playing my dad's guitars. He passed away a few years ago. I have his '53 CES and my brother has his custom non-cut L5. The non-cut is fantastic, but I won't hijack the thread by posting pictures of that one.
Keith

[brm]

As far as I know, Gibson reserved the "P" designation for the initial Super 400 and L-5 models with cutaways. They never used the designation on the L-7 or L-12 models when they acquired cutaways. As well, I think Gibson production records from the '42 to '47 for any of these models are non-existent or have never been made public. I have production information for pre-war S-400, S-400P, L-5 and L-5P models, but not for pre-war L-7, L-10 and L-12 models.

Not to be obsessive, but the L-7 did use the "P" designation for at least the 1948 and early 1949 cutaway models. I have a very early 1949 (Feb. the best I can tell) and it is clearly labeled L-7P. It has the proper carved top at the cutaway. The binding is even and there is no endgrain of the top showing. Also this model has parallel bracing and it is not kerfed but solid. I have looked inside with a cell phone camera. It is a tight fit but you can slip it through the F hole. It is a fair way to see much of the inside.

[Hammertone]

Not to be obsessive, but the L-7 did use the "P" designation for at least the 1948 and early 1949 cutaway models. I have a very early 1949 (Feb. the best I can tell) and it is clearly labeled L-7P. It has the proper carved top at the cutaway. The binding is even and there is no endgrain of the top showing. Also this model has parallel bracing and it is not kerfed but solid. I have looked inside with a cell phone camera. It is a tight fit but you can slip it through the F hole. It is a fair way to see much of the inside.

Hooray for the internet! And hooray for being obsessive! I checked as well and corrected my initial post about it because I was wrong. As I said, nothing Gibson did surprises me, and I view the designation merely as a general point of reference, not as a critical DNA sequence. Gibson DID use the L-7P and L-12P designations. My guess is that there are more out there. Time to dig up of pix of the cutaway area of some L-7P and L-12P guitars.

[Socraticaster]

Maybe someome has seen an L-12P as well?

Here you go: 1947 Gibson L-12-P sunburst > Guitars Archtop Electric & Acoustic | Schoenberg Guitars

[Socraticaster]

Also: Gibson (used, 1948) L12P Archtop Acoustic Guitar - Mandolin Brothers, Ltd.

[Hammertone]

Gibson (used, 1948) L12P Archtop Acoustic Guitar - Mandolin Brothers, Ltd.

Here you go: 1947 Gibson L-12-P sunburst > Guitars Archtop Electric & Acoustic | Schoenberg Guitars

Cool!
The photos in Rick's ad hint at the P-style carve.
And his ad includes my laff of the day: "more finely carved top" - sure. ….ahh….commerce!

[Hammertone]

Finally dug up my own '48 L-5P: