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Hello,
I've decided to start this super-stupid topic, just because I stopped looking for a new guitar for quite some time!
I'm a playing a 1977 Aria PE-180 (kind of Super400/L-5) and I'm very happy with it - no intention to sell or anything. But I need something to look up to and thing "If I had that 3000 / 5000 / 7000 E, I would but this guitar". I'm also very happy with my amp, so amp-swap is no option
What I like:
- big box
- vintage if possible
- unique voice
My dream guitar was always the L-5, but the more I listen to YT clips and recordings, the more I think that it's maybe to transparent (lately there was a discussion where I wasn't sure if Peter Bernstein was playing already L-5 or still the ES-175). So maybe something else?
The below descriptions are picky to differentiate between the guitars, but too me all sound overall GREAT.
- Gibson Byrdland? Most YT clips sound bad, but Anthony Wilson sounds soooooo good on it:
SUPER-expensive. Probably out of the range anyway
- es350t? Lage Lund played one for quite some time. On YT also very transparent and a bit bright? So it sounds on Dutchboppers clips on YT, his Barney and Tal sound much fuller. These are available at pretty decent prices.
- ES-125 -Dutchboppers newest archtop - inexpensive and sounds good. Super vintage, but a bit small:
- Tal Farlow - also pretty inexpensive (if you can say that about a guitar for 3,5k Euro) and sounds rich and full on YT, but maybe to rich and full?
Which one would you make your dream guitar?
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06-08-2017 03:05 AM
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I made my dream guitar a reality 2 years ago and the honeymoon is still ongoing...
You can hardly find a better value in modern Gibson Archtop with a RI Tal.
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ES-125 and you will never look back....
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If you are keeping the guitar you have - a good idea - your next guitar should be an acoustic. Check out campus 5's blog. He went guitar hunting last year with lots of good information re the guitars he tried out.
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I was in the same situation last year after I sold my house and the two I was trying to decide between in the end was a Tal or L5. I ended up with a '70 L5 but either guitar will make you really happy. The last two you mentioned are a little different and you'll have to consider the thin body of the 350t and the no cutaway and P90 of the 125. I would love to have a 125 and I was actually just considering getting one this month but ultimately ended up choosing an Ibanez PM100 over it - I'll probably end up with one eventually though. But for one guitar as a dram guitar I didn't have that on the list last year because I was worried about noise from the P90 in some settings vs. a humbucker and because I really do need the cutaway.
If your Aria is the one I am thinking of, it is very close to the tone of an L5 and I would probably go for a Tal in your situation, if it were me.
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Definitely no need for an acoustic archtop from my perspective. I play in trio-quartet bands with rhythm section and tenor sax or vocal, or without drums sometimes. I need a nice fat sound, if I'd be going to gigs with 2 guitars, I'd probably buy a flattop instead of an acoustic archtop
Originally Posted by nopedals
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The Aria PE-180 sounds big and full, for sure. I played mine yesterday through one of my tweed deluxe amps and was just knocked out.
If you go with the Tal (a superb guitar) you will be barking up the same tree, as it were. The Tal and the 180 share a lot of the same characteristics.
If you go with a 175/125 style guitar, you will be heading in a slightly different direction and will be getting a different sound and feel. Those guitars will give you a great, dry, 50s-70s bop trip. I had the 180 and 175 together for years and years. Each was outstanding, but each covered a different feel/sound. I thought the 175 was bluesier--more of a "Blue Note" Records instrument. Picking it up just automatically put me into a "at the Chicken Shack" vibe. Loved that guitar. Only sold it to acquire my dream carved archtop.
Also, I wish I never sold my vintage 125. There never was a more soulful guitar than that one.
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Ever since acquiring Joe D's 1935 D'Angelico Excel, I have been without a dream guitar (my dreams have been fulfilled). Now I dream about playing better
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To me, the Gibson L-5 is the jazz guitarist dream guitar. A Super 400 or a 175 might be more to your needs. Those are the big three. Were I you, I would set my sights on one of those.
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For the $, a used Heritage H-550
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I sometimes play my Tal and wonder why I have other guitars.
I have experienced the same thing that you mentioned. A lot of the L5's I've heard recorded on YouTube sound flat out, bad.
My own recording done with my Black L5, sounded thin and plinky..
But, in reality, they don't sound like some of the bad recordings. They are the Quintessential Jazz guitar for a reason. Once you put one on your lap and run your hand up and down the neck (that was made for god..), you quickly realize why this guitar has achieved superstar status. It really is the perfect guitar. In the Wes variant, it is fully capable of an acoustic deep warm sound, particularly when the top has been played and has had time to open up. Nothing feels like the L5. Its a substantial guitar. Its the king.
Before you make your decision, play one. And if you cant swing it, the Tal Farlow is almost every bit as good.
Joe D
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Thank you Marco. You just made me really happy when I read that. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Ever since acquiring Joe D's 1935 D'Angelico Excel, I have been without a dream guitar (my dreams have been fulfilled). Now I dream about playing better.
To me, the Gibson L-5 is the jazz guitarist dream guitar. A Super 400 or a 175 might be more to your needs. Those are the big three. Were I you, I would set my sights on one of those.
And your playing is the best playing that your Excel has ever experienced.
Joe D.
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L4CES is another very viable option. The Tal Farlow and L4CES are Gibson's best bang for the buck although Amazon is selling 2 wine L5 Wes Montgomery models right now for $5084.00 brand new. That is a smoking deal.
As far as Byrdlands go I can get a gorgeous tone out of mine very close to a L5. The short scale is lightning fast but not for people with big hands. The neck profile is the same as a L5 but it has 22 frets and the 23.5 scale.
Your scale length preference should be considered also in your decision. To me ALL Gibson archtops sound wonderful. Hard call.
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If I didn't have my L5 and was looking looking this year and not last year I would be all over that Amazon Wes deal.
And yeah, some of the YouTube L5 videos don't sound good. I think it is harder to get a good tone out of it than out of some other guitars like the good laminates but that once you know how to get it they sound damn good.
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I noticed yesterday that there's a nice looking single pickup Heritage Super Eagle on Reverb, but that may be more of a thing that I like then what you're looking for:
Heritage Super Eagle 2005 Sunburst | Reverb
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For some reason (Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass and Kenny Burell come to mind), the quintessential 16 inch archtop (ES-175) is laminated while the quintessential 17 inch (L-5) and 18 inch archtops (Super 400) are carved. Hence the Tal (a laminate 17 inch and the L-4CES (a carved 16 inch) fly a bit under the radar screen and can be bought for less. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Scale length, bout size and floater vs built in PUP are all considerations. Then there is brand. Great choices abound from the many superb luthiers of the last 25 years, not to mention the venerable Guild, Heritage and Ibanez (Japan made) brands.
But at the end of the day Gibson/D'Angelico/D'Aquisto is still at the top of the food chain. If you are going to dream, dream big.
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The problem with dream guitars is that once you get one, that night you fall asleep and have a new dream.
I say that tongue in cheek, but there is truth there. Several times I bought or traded back my old guitars because they became my new dream guitars.
A rational person would seriously ask what is wanted from the guitar. Sometimes people just like the hunt for a new instrument. Some like buying and selling. Some like the color or wood pattern. Others strictly see the guitar as a tool and go by tone and playability. Most of us have several of these wants.
The mind can be devious and try to justify a purchase by telling you that you really want the same guitar that you just got but with P90s or with a longer scale or really almost anything when really you are in a continuous tonequest that will never end. You might as well just accept the truth and deal with it directly. GAS
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The problem with dream guitars is that once you get one, that night you fall asleep and have a new dream
MG, that is the absolute classic line of all time at JGF.
And it is so true. I can personally vouch for it. maybe that's why I don't sleep that well at night. I think my wife keeps dropping a safe on me so I don't wake up with any bright ideas..
Great one MG.
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It is a little pricey but this might tempt someone:
Tal Farlow '94 - Dave's Guitar Shop
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My two dream guitars were always a WesMo L5 and a Benedetto. Last year I was lucky enough to get a Guild Benedetto Stuart. I had been watching the Wine Red WesMo on Amazon and planning to pull the trigger when I received a refund on another order. When I read Vinny's post, I got REALLY nervous. In the past I had seen amazing deals on Amazon, but when they got down to one left, the price shot way up. So I pulled the trigger this afternoon and sure enough, now the price is back up over $7k. So, sorry to anyone who was thinking about it, but I couldn't live with myself if I let this one get away! Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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If you are really happy with the Aria Pro II PE180, then perhaps getting an L5ces or L5wes would not be such a dramatic change. I have the L5ces, the Aria PE180, and the Epiphone Elitist Broadway, and they are all very close. So if you have one, maybe the other would not be a "dream" in the sense of a big difference.
Since the Aria is also laminated, I'm thinking it might also be pretty close to the Tal Farlow, though I'm sure TF owners would howl in protest, probably rightly. Still, you have the big-box, deep dish, long-scale archtop electric in the Aria. Only if you have Gibson Addiction Syndrome (which I suffer from and have no hope of a cure) should you look for the L5 electric or the Tal.
I think what you want is an L4ces, or an L4c with floater. It's the small body, short scale, cutaway archtop with a solid top (to complement your laminated Aria). Get it with pickup, either the "ces" model or one with a floater, and you'll have in two guitars virtually the entire universe of archtops. Laminate, carved; big, smaller, long scale, short scale, electric, acoustic (if you do the L4c+Floater).
You could also go for a nice ES175. You NEVER go wrong with an ES175.
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Originally Posted by Max405
Caution must be observed in the quest for Acoustic Archtop Dream catching... a very deceptive and dangerous quest...
1: You MUST actually play the guitar, you may hear youtube clips, soundcloud etc... and
think "Holy Grail" but there may be processing involved (or great mic techniques etc...)
2: Forgetting step 1 (as I did) you must then buy an arsenal of guitars and hope for the best
(actualy got very lucky with an L7C that I got via Archtop Guy via Joe D, but the search did not end there)
3: If you ever manage to use step 1 and have found "The Guitar" ... PULL THE TRIGGER IMMEDIATLY
or some other Dreamer will beat you to it, or your conscience will tell you that you need a new water heater more...
4: Once you submit to the true dream guitar, you may never play you other guitars EVER!
And the true dream guitar will "Purge the Urge" to even look at another guitar, you will actually get
offended that some other guitar is trying to get between you and the "Dream"
5: If you ever see for sale a guitar from Bryant Trenier ... and play it... you will likely have your
Dream Acoustic Archtop issue solved.
of course this is all speculation... I swear I haven't spent more $$$ on Acoustic Archtops in the last 2 years than most small countries spend on their military
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Long ago, in the 90's, I had a windfall that made it possible for me to buy a good archtop and price didn't matter (well ... within reason -- no original d'angelico's or d'aquistos were in the picture). I went to the closest store that had a true selection (Lentine's Music in Akron, OH, now defunct). I sat down with a good amp and asked them to hand me each of their guitars without my looking or knowing what guitar it was. I then played them and asked to try various of them over again. This took a couple of hours (they knew me as a serious customer). The guitars included most of the Gibsons... a regular L-5CES, a Wes, a Super 400, a Citation! (I found out later...they stuck it in, this one wouldn't have been in the cards), a Heritage Golden Eagle, and a Tal Farlow. I ended up blindly choosing the Tal, and bought it. It had the sound I was looking for. It was a wine red one. I chose it over the others including the Citation. Of course, your end result might be very different but I recommend the procedure for getting a dream guitar. It is true that if I were trying to win a contest by trying to discover which was which with my eyes closed, I could have done that by the pickup configurations and knob/switch locations, but I didn't do that, just trying to go by feel and sound. I don't think you can get the same satisfaction with your choice via internet research, but maybe you could get lucky and have an even better result because there certainly are a lot more guitars available to choose among, and my choice in Akron, OH might have been solely a function of the sample I was provided.
Of course, there is no such thing as the ultimate guitar. I no longer have the Tal even though I would buy it back in a heartbeat. I happily play others and my current favorite is a L7C, followed by an Eastman 880 Pisano and a Triggs, none of them internet purchases.
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Sweet !!! A great big Congrats. The second you have that baby in your hands the price tag will be forever forgotten. Originally Posted by djelley
My two dream guitars were always a WesMo L5 and a Benedetto. Last year I was lucky enough to get a Guild Benedetto Stuart. I had been watching the Wine Red WesMo on Amazon and planning to pull the trigger when I received a refund on another order. When I read Vinny's post, I got REALLY nervous. In the past I had seen amazing deals on Amazon, but when they got down to one left, the price shot way up. So I pulled the trigger this afternoon and sure enough, now the price is back up over $7k. So, sorry to anyone who was thinking about it, but I couldn't live with myself if I let this one get away!
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+1. Originally Posted by Max405
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