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I can't believe you guys are nitpicking at someone who has done more for the fundamental repertoire of jazz in the broad spectrum of audiences than just about anyone else. People who never even heard of Nat King Cole discover his tunes when DK sings them. She plays the crap out of that piano, she works a lot with small ensembles, and she always highlights a solid guitar player.
And you guys complain that the mix is a little too clean and that she's too pretty?
Good lord. No wonder jazz is dying. You guys are its executioners. Do you really want it to always be small, ugly, confusing and struggling to find an audience?
I promise you, DK is closer to Nat King Cole and the great ones of mainstream jazz from two generations back than many of her critics.
Or maybe it's just envy talking?
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06-07-2017 10:31 PM
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Word. I couldn't agree more.
Originally Posted by lawson-stone
And a nice quote to those pesky "executioners":
"It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you're a fool than open it and remove all doubt"
- Mark Twain
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I think you're way off base, what's wrong with having a preference. Jazz is dying is another urban myth, truth is Swing was big it was the Pop music of its day, but what we call Jazz was never big, in fact Bebop is bigger now that it was when it was the new music. I've been bless to have been able to hang out is pro and a few big name Jazz musicians over my life, and if you hear them talk they are far more picky and even critical of others, and of even between sub-genres of Jazz.
So I don't see anything wrong with people expressing their preferences/opinions, and you don't have to agrees with them, without different preferences and opinions there'd be no use for forums and discussion group we'd all be cookie cutter people.
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The topic got somehow out of bounds, but I just want to say that I'm a big Diana Krall fan, love most of her albums and she made me discover Anthony Wilson. Moreover - as a former sound technician and from-time-to-time live-sound-engineer, I love the sound of the new album (apart from the thin guitars :-D). Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Definitely. Both my ears and Google tell me so. Originally Posted by jzjazz
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Discogs has the album credits as:
1 Like Someone In Love Acoustic Bass – Christian McBrideComposed By – Jimmy Van Heusen And Johnny BurkeContractor – Shari SutcliffeElectric Guitar – Russell MaloneSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
3:16 2 Isn't It Romantic Acoustic Bass – John ClaytonComposed By – Rodgers & HartConcertmaster – Joel DerouinContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Jeff HamiltonElectric Guitar – Anthony WilsonSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana KrallVibraphone – Stefan Harris
4:29 3 L-O-V-E Acoustic Bass – John ClaytonComposed By – Bert Kaempfert, Milt GablerContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Jeff HamiltonElectric Guitar – Anthony WilsonSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
4:21 4 Night and Day Acoustic Bass – John ClaytonAcoustic Guitar – Anthony WilsonComposed By – Cole PorterConcertmaster – Joel DerouinContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Jeff HamiltonSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
4:39 5 I'm Confessin' (That I Love You) Acoustic Bass – Tony GarnierComposed By – Al Neiburg, Doc Daugherty, Ellis ReynoldsContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Karriem RigginsElectric Guitar – Marc RibotFiddle – Stuart DuncanSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
3:24 6 Moonglow Acoustic Bass – Tony GarnierComposed By – Eddie Delange, Irving Mills, Will HudsonContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Karriem RigginsElectric Guitar – Marc RibotFiddle – Stuart DuncanSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
5:15 7 Blue Skies Acoustic Bass – Christian McBrideComposed By – Irving BerlinContractor – Shari SutcliffeElectric Guitar – Russell MaloneSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
4:39 8 Sway Acoustic Bass – John ClaytonAcoustic Guitar – Anthony WilsonComposed By – Luis Demetrio, Norman Gimbel, Pablo Rosas RodriguezConcertmaster – Joel DerouinContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Jeff HamiltonSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
6:13 9 No Moon At All Acoustic Bass – John ClaytonComposed By – David Mann (3), Redd EvansContractor – Shari SutcliffeSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
4:06 10 Dream Acoustic Bass – Christian McBrideComposed By – John H. MercerConcertmaster – Joel DerouinContractor – Shari SutcliffeElectric Guitar – Russell MaloneSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
4:05 11 I'll See You In My Dreams Acoustic Bass – Tony GarnierAcoustic Guitar – Marc RibotComposed By – Gus Kahn, Isham JonesContractor – Shari SutcliffeDrums – Karriem RigginsFiddle – Stuart DuncanSolo Vocal, Piano – Diana Krall
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@ lawson-stone:
They are not all saints who use holy water.
Pýx, láx, dáx - not a good basis for a sincere and open discussion, neither by PM. As pure antipodes that would not come into fruition.
@ LtKojak:
From Mark Twain originate two other quotes:
- Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habit.
- What a hell of a heaven it will be when they get all these hypocrites assembled there.
If it were not for the intellectual snobs who pay, the arts would perish with their starving practitioners - let us thank heaven for hypocrisy.
- Aldous Huxley
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Wow, and I thought I'd get hazed for liking Harry Connick Jr....
More power to them all- I wish I was making my living playing music.
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So, you're the one that defined how Jazz should be "properly recorded"? Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
I must've missed that memo... where can I find the official RIAA document with the parameters used? And don't worry, Ich spreche auch deutsch!
Well...?Last edited by LtKojak; 06-08-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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I really like Russell Malones playing. I have to say since he switched to Buscarino guitars I'm not real fond of his sound. It detracts from his playing to my ears. Guess I'm just tuned to hearing that Gibson sound. No surprise there.
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One of my biggest learning exercices was to see DK in Paris years ago at Olympia and to take on board the mutual interplay between her and AW - swapping lines and quotes with subtle changes - wow! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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I haven't seen Malone play his Buscarino for some years now. In recent years he's drawn from an L5, a pair of Super 400s and a reissue D'Angelico. He has quite the collection. Originally Posted by skiboyny
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I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Sorry. I can't respond to cryptic insinuations via quotations. Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
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Fair enough. Consider it just me expressing my opinion, which naturally, is worth what you paid for it! Originally Posted by docbop
I suspect I sounded a bit harsh or cranky.
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It's called "Sauerkraut Humor". Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Don't worry: hazing is reserved for Justin Bieber fans... Originally Posted by ruger9
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As time goes by, I like the acoustic guitar sound more compared to the thick "blanket over the speaker" sound from the 50s. It's kind of cool when a guitar sounds like a guitar.
Last edited by Chazmo; 06-08-2017 at 07:05 PM.
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The 50's jazz tone sounds like a blanket over the speaker?
Really?
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goddam, Chirstian Mcbride is killin' it on bass on "Like Someone in Love."
Something is wrong with the guitar tone on that track. It works really well when he's comping but in the solo it sounds like the action is too low. But also the recording or mixing is odd. There's a lot of reverb, short delay reverb or something--on the guitar and it doesn't sound like it's in the trio at all, like maybe they overdubbed it later. It just doesn't sit right at all
On LOVE it's the same thing--he's processed in a way no one else is processed, and it just doesn't sit right. IMHO both tracks sound too much like all the instruments were recorded in isolation, with no bleed, and so it sounds less like a band than like a bunch of good players all in different rooms.
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Well, he might be exaggerating, and IDK the actual era, but I know what he's referencing. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It's like some people took Wes and Benson to the extreme. Maybe amongst REAL "jazzers", who are extremely informed about all jazz guitar over the eras, there are of course MANY types of "jazz tone"... but to the "causal" jazz listener, that "dark jazz tone" has definitely become the stereotype. Unfortunately. As opposed to, for example, a Johnny Smith who has a beautiful, full-range tone.
[and, just for the record, I'm not a real jazz PLAYER, but I am a real jazz LISTENER
]
Frankly, even alot of CC recordings have that blanket-over-the-amp tone, however now we're talking about obsolete mics, recording mediums, and AGE on that medium... to get to the tone we hear today on "Live At Minton's" for example... I'll bet the tone on alot of those CC recording is NOT was was heard in the room. All the horns (in the big band era), with all their high end, seem to survive the whole process better than guitar does.Last edited by ruger9; 06-09-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Or even Joe Pass, on the majority of his recordings, who has a very even, clear tone. I'm thinking recordings like "Blues for Fred" or "Portraits of Duke Ellington." No blankets on anything there. Originally Posted by ruger9
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Thanks Ruger9 for better expressing what I mean. Ironically, beginners hear Wes and roll their tone all the way down to get the "jazz sound." If you really listen to Wes's solos, he got a lot of acoustic tone out of that L-5.
I appreciate the Johnny Smith full-range tone a little more now. Joe Pass's tone was all over the place, but the best stuff he left us in recordings is not dark at all. At their best, these guys were very articulate, but with warmth.
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Originally Posted by ruger9
Well, he might be exaggerating, and IDK the actual era, but I know what he's referencing.
It's like some people took Wes and Benson to the extreme. Maybe amongst REAL "jazzers", who are extremely informed about all jazz guitar over the eras, there are of course MANY types of "jazz tone"... but to the "causal" jazz listener, that "dark jazz tone" has definitely become the stereotype. Unfortunately. As opposed to, for example, a Johnny Smith who has a beautiful, full-range tone.
[and, just for the record, I'm not a real jazz PLAYER, but I am a real jazz LISTENER ]
Frankly, even alot of CC recordings have that blanket-over-the-amp tone, however now we're talking about obsolete mics, recording mediums, and AGE on that medium... to get to the tone we hear today on "Live At Minton's" for example... I'll bet the tone on alot of those CC recording is NOT was was heard in the room. All the horns (in the big band era), with all their high end, seem to survive the whole process better than guitar does.
Wes and Benson? Their tones are bright!
Dark to me is 70's Jim Hall, or current Pat and Pat.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Well, it's all relative, of course. Wes might have been bright compared to Hall, but dark compared to Smith.
The point is, "tone control down" has become a jazz tone stereotype, for whatever reason. I can't tell you how many times I read/heard people talk about/demonstrate jazz tone, and it sounded like their tone control was OFF. But again- we're talking about the "casual" listener, who have recieved their diet of "jazz" in elevators and Panera Breads.
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Originally Posted by ruger9
Well, it's all relative, of course. Wes might have been bright compared to Hall, but dark compared to Smith.
The point is, "tone control down" has become a jazz tone stereotype, for whatever reason. I can't tell you how many times I read/heard people talk about/demonstrate jazz tone, and it sounded like their tone control was OFF. But again- we're talking about the "casual" listener, who have recieved their diet of "jazz" in elevators and Panera Breads.
Not trying to argue, but I mean, listen to Wes! This is with a thumb remember...If I played this guitar/amp setup with a pick and the brightness would slice people's ears open!
I think you're exactly right in your second point--I really think "tone control down" is only a stereotype of jazz with people who don't play it or listen to it.
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