Fitting a DeArmond Guitar Mike Pickup

[stringmaster]

I have two questions:

1. In trying to fit the Guitar Mike pickup I have to an old Epiphone it doesn't seem to want to "line up" properly and it appears that the rod/stick would need to be bent to achieve the right angles--and it looks like it would be easy to break the rod--I always get nervous too that I'm going to scratch the heck out of my guitar when trying to fit it so I back out Any advice on fitting to a particular guitar? I assume it varies by instrument geometry, etc. I'm speaking of fitting it with the clamp that mounts behind the bridge over the strings.

2. Has anyone tried to modify a Guitar Mike to mount on a pickguard like a Johnny Smith etc floater? Perhaps fitting a plate underneath? Don't want to do the screw into the side of the neck mounting.

Thanks

This is the pickup I'm referring to:

[archtopeddy]

Hi Marc. Being left-handed I've had to bend a DeArmond monkey stick to a "mirror image" to use it on my guitar. I was able to do this without breaking it. I used a lightly padded vise, holding the monkey stick as close to the bend area as I could and then bending it very carefully by hand (wearing leather padded gardening gloves just in case it snapped). Since I had two monkey sticks, I figured I could take a chance with one and it worked. In the attached pictures the one with a green pad is the one that has been bent to lefty specs. The other is the unaltered righty. While I don't have a tool to measure the exact degree, you can see I put quite a bend in it. I also had to bend the longer end of the stick but not as severely as the end with the clamp.

My guess is that you will not be bending your monkey stick as severely as I did mine so it would seem with care you should be able to bend it to your needs.

Archtop Eddy

[stringmaster]

Nice work and thanks for the tips!

[Ol' Fret]

For every guitar you have to bend the rod once to "line up" a floating DeArmond properly.
The older rods bend ok; the new ones - both the short and long rods - show a tendency to break if you're too forceful. Junk metal, I suppose... Some heating during the bending procedure is helpful, though it's better to buy a 1/8" round nickel silver rod and make the rod yourself from the scratch. If you make a platelet with one oval hole for the single screw hole neck mounting into the side, any later fine adjustment of the pickup is easier. Which PU - even those with "adjustable" pole pieces - doesn't need fine adjustment?


I'm often done with these rods because they can feel wobbly, don't look pretty to my eyes and are not easily adjustable.
I like to change floaters of different sizes on any of my guitars ad libitum, no matter if it's a DeA 1000/1100 (not a big fan of the Guitar Mike), a modified DeA 55/56, a Lawrence A-400, etc., or even a full-size humbucker (if there's enough clearance to the top) - without fiddling much each time.
And I like to fine adjust the pickup in every direction in a firm way. The pickguard is no longer my favorite spot for mounting a floating pickup because some pickups are microphonic and I prefer to have the pickguard ca. 8mm located below the level of the strings.

To achieve this I take small nickel silver or SS sheets of different width (gold-color usually does not meet my taste, except for a show boat or something especially striking) - fitting to the actual pickup width, carefully drill and tap two threads with standard-space (= uniform) holes into the end of the neck extension (where you can't spot the holes, at least not in the playing position), bend the sheets, spend them two oval holes at the neck side, plus two threaded holes for the slugs - and you're done for the future.
Sounds more complicated than it actually is; some pics may tell it better:












Of course, there are countless ways of mounting a floating pickup on an archtop. The most crude ones, IMO, are the using of silicone or adhesive tape, etc, or the common "Swiss cheese technique": drilling countless screw holes at both sides of the neck extension. For each guitar owner (we are nothing but temporary stewards) at least eight or twelve holes on both sides...

[campusfive]

When I install mine (and I take it on and off at every gig) on my L-5, I put a microfiber cleaning cloth between the bridge and tailpiece, draped down to where the control box rests. My Guitar Mic pickup has a decent felt pad, so that part's fine.

In working with Guitar Mics over the years, I find the string alignment to be the most problematic thing to line up, especially when an un-notched pickguard prevents from being in the proper position. I got lucky that my L-5 lines up perfectly, and the string alignment is right on even with the original guard in tact.

[Greentone]

It's been years and years since I owned the same pickup as the OP shows above. Mine, though, came with felt disks on the underside of both the pickup and the control box. Consequently, the pickup did not scratch my guitar--even after repeated attachment and reattachment.

If the disks are gone, then can easily be replaced with comparable felt disks from an art store, or even from the furniture department of a WalMart/Target-type store.

[pingu]

Hi ol'fret ..... that mount is genius !

That might work for a full fat humbucker
mount (a la peter Bernstein)

[KirkP]

...To achieve this I take small nickel silver or SS sheets of different width (gold-color usually does not meet my taste, except for a show boat or something especially striking) - fitting to the actual pickup width, carefully drill and tap two threads with standard-space (= uniform) holes into the end of the neck extension (where you can't spot the holes, at least not in the playing position), bend the sheets, spend them two oval holes at the neck side, plus two threaded holes for the slugs - and you're done for the future.
Sounds more complicated than it actually is; some pics may tell it better:...

That looks like a great mounting scheme, but how is the pickup secured in the mounting plate? Is it just the friction of being squeezed between the fasteners? Seems like that could damage the pickup case, or loosen up and fall out. I wonder you have rubber or felt pads to prevent that.

[Ol' Fret]

Hi ol'fret ..... that mount is genius !

That might work for a full fat humbucker
mount (a la peter Bernstein)

Thanks!
I like to have a small stock of differently sized metal sheets on hand. Full size humbuckers work too, you just have to shorten the pole piece screws: so this mount is not the order of the day for the vintage PAF fans... Well, it isn't "vintage correct" anyway - just something for players who like a standardized, stable and easy adjustable (or changeable) mount without tinkering about the pickguard position.
The fixing of a 12-pole-pieces KA floater was hassle-free to do.

Being a vintage guitar guy, I still have a use for floaters with brackets or the DeArmond rod - simply to hide hopefully most of those pre-existing drill holes on the neck extension sides.

[Ol' Fret]

That looks like a great mounting scheme, but how is the pickup secured in the mounting plate? Is it just the friction of being squeezed between the fasteners? Seems like that could damage the pickup case, or loosen up and fall out. I wonder you have rubber or felt pads to prevent that.

Thanks, how do they say: horses for courses?!

The pickup is secured in the plate by the two slugs that work in combination with a "preloading" of the bent metal sheets. Sort of a press-fit - sorry, don't know how to explain this any better in English!
So, yes, it's the slugs on the one end and the friction on the other end (screws and slugs work also by the friction force fit).
Properly done, the pickup, IMO, sits absolutely safe, plus it can be fine adjusted (or removed) in any direction just by a few turns. It's hardly possible to lever the pickup out without brute force; I'm sure you'd more easily bend these DeArmond rods, or even break out some of these floating pickups that are often only fixed at the brackets by two small spot weldings.

If you have concerns about damaging the pickup case - or like to raise the friction at the neck side - you could use some (natural) cork. I don't like to have rubber on my guitars, and felt might be too slippery in this case. Since I'm a sax player too, I have always some cork sheets (1/8" and 1/16") on hand. You could just put a little piece between the screws in the way like can be seen here:

[gitman]

Some might find this method questionable but I've never run into any problems :
either a few drops of liquid silicone or the (mostly black) putty used for attaching contact microphones onto
acoustic guitars. That stuff does not harm the finish and it's completely removable. In case the pickup
is too far from the strings you can shim it with either a few layers of leather, felt or cork. The fact that the pickup actually touches the top is of no consequence - at least I didn't notice any difference in the acoustic response of the guitar.
I have employed this method (using a DeArmond 1100 model) on my acoustic Super-400.

[stringmaster]

OP back--Success! Thanks all for the tips--just needed to bend the rod a bit. It helped to install the rod without the pickup on it to get it fitted close. Sounds decent enough with the bronze strings that I don't feel the need to change those out at this point. Besides, I doubt I'll be gigging the guitar with the pickup any time soon.

[archtopeddy]

Good job! Stings line up with the PU real nicely in the picture. And super cool Epi too. (What model/year?)

[stringmaster]

Thanks--it's a '34 Masterbuilt Deluxe--a real honker!!

[campusfive]

Masterbilt Deluxe? Yeah they are real honkers!

[zizala]

I enjoy a few more modest old Epi's.

But that one's my "dream" guitar........

(Big sigh)......maybe someday.

[stringmaster]

As a follow up--I strung the Epi up with .013 Thomastik BeBop Jazz roundwounds. The balance is pretty good overall--more balanced and better output vs the bronze strings that were on it. The bronze could still work though. I'm a bit "meh" about the overall result. The pickup sounds great but there is not a lot of "dynamic range" to be had--that is not a lot of variation in tone based on where your pick, attack, etc. I'm used to coaxing a lot of different sounds with my one pickup guitars, and it's less so here. I assume it's is a sum of all parts--the guitar, the strings, the wooden bridge, the pickup, etc. As an acoustic instrument this guitar is very versatile and displays a lot of dynamic range. As an electric much of that magic is lost. Don't get me wrong, it's still cool and there are good tones to be had!

Additionally I've managed to remove/fit the pickup a couple of times safely. Getting the rod bent properly and heavily padding the top of the instrument with microfiber towels helped. Still a bit of a chore to change strings.

[garybaldy]

Hi Ol' Fret. I'm glad I managed to find your post again! I started a thread asking what would be the effect of raising this pickup:



The bottom line was it could only marginally be raised, would involve woodwork, and the question of what difference it would make.
I had the idea to modify your excellent 'cradle' mount so instead of fixing it to the end of the fretboard, form some side mount brackets as part of the 'cradle' that line up with the existing stock screw holes thus no extra woodwork. What do you think?
BTW may I ask why you chose to thread the end of the fretboard rather than using wood screws? Thank you.

[Greentone]

I agree with Ol Fret. The older sticks bend more easily, while the newer ones tend to snap.

My recommendation is to bite the bullet and shop for an older DeArmond Guitar Mike. They are superb pickups for archtops. You won't regret your purchase.

[Doctor Jeff]

That's pretty cool. One could also mount the mounting bracket to the guitar with 2-sided 3M foam mounting tape, for a less permanent installation.

Just a suggestion is to pad the screw heads so they don't mar the pickup or use some kind of strip between them, and turn the lower screws around to use as set screws, again with some kind of padding between the screw end and the pickup. My woodworking background--I hate to see metal on metal--it scratches and mars. Unless you don't care cause it's not visible.

[Ol' Fret]

@ garybaldy:

Thank you for digging out my old "universal" floating pickup clamp!

Not being a pickup technician I can only simplify: the effect of raising any pickup, bringing it closer to the strings, changes the way how the vibrating strings are read by the pickup. I hope nobody here feels offended if I quote Charlie Parker: "Just listen"! Basically the loudness increases, and the perceived frequency spectrum is a bit shifted, the trebles get more defined - and this can be the problem on many full-hollow body archtops if you try to raise a floater parallel to the top: when the upper strings sound ok to your ears, the level of the low E can already be way too boomy.
This was one impetus to create this clamp, another one was my volatile mind who brazenly can claim to get a DeArmond pickup sound today, a Bill Lawrence tomorrow and a Kent Armstrong PAF the day after tomorrow - on the same guitar! Since the distance of the neck attachment (long) holes is standardized, the respective cradle for each pickup is rapidly changed - without further damage to the guitar.

Other reasons for the development were: as a general admirer of Harry DeArmonds pickup designs I never dug the look and clumsy appearance of the longer monkey-on-a-stick rod; well, I think the name tells it all. Then I had some old DeArmond 55/56 pickups - very likely identical to the 1000/1100 design - waiting for a floating attachment.
Btw., I often use the original control boxes, love the string damping of the "afterlength" strings. However, the Guild 1000/1100 replicas come without controls, so the recent strive is for all pickups, including the top-mounted ones, to put the electric parts under the pickguard, and get the whole pickup-control-pickguard unit off and on the guitar with not more than driving three or four screws; no soldering, no fumbling through slender sound holes.

If you're a player devoted to one particular floating pickup design, the method above may be a total overkill. Then just find the best sounding and convenient (picking) position for the pickup, attach it the way you like it, and forget the rest. My good friend HR likes it more that way, though he uses selfmade little attachment clamps made of solid nickel silver, with long hole, that also allow an amount of individual pickup adjustment on the neck extension bass side.

If I understand Harry DeArmond's thinking correctly, he wanted to keep the lug of the guitar mike and the 1000/1100 firmly pressed towards the bottom of the pickguard. To achieve this, the long attachment rod has often to be twisted, and sometimes the pickguard itself is in the way of the ideal pickup adjustment. This is the reason why my initial point of attaching any floating pickup is the position of the pickguard. In my case, I like it positioned at least 9mm below the high E string (so no interference with the pick or the fingers), and parallel to the high E string as seen from above. Otherwise I could feel a certain cheesiness for the troubled guitar (player).

One more answer why I choose the fretboard end towards the bridge for the cradle attachment should be clear now: I don't like to see any screw holes at the FB end (bass side) when holding/playing the guitar or when deciding to use it as a pure acoustic instrument.

Why using threads (machine screws) at the end of the fretboard? Well, ebony wood is very brittle hardwood. It's processing compares more to metal than wood work. I feel better to drill a cylindrical hole and use a cylindrical thread in ebony, than drill a cylindrical hole and use a conical wood screw. Conical threads, self-cut by wood screws, cannot match up to cylindrical threads. Everyone who has screwed on and off the tailpiece or pickguard bracket screws on his guitar a couple of times will agree: the screws get loose and looser. The crucial point of my attachment above is that it can hopefully be changed often without getting loose.
It works well for my purposes, it may or may not work for others.



<< Hi Ol' Fret. I'm glad I managed to find your post again! I started a thread asking what would be the effect of raising this pickup: […]

The bottom line was it could only marginally be raised, would involve woodwork, and the question of what difference it would make.
I had the idea to modify your excellent 'cradle' mount so instead of fixing it to the end of the fretboard, form some side mount brackets as part of the 'cradle' that line up with the existing stock screw holes thus no extra woodwork. What do you think?

BTW may I ask why you chose to thread the end of the fretboard rather than using wood screws? Thank you. >>

[Ol' Fret]

@ Doctor Jeff:

Thanks, Jeff, I can see your points!

Being anything but a full bearded nature freak: no foam tapes on my guitars! They age quickly, loose their tack in the moment when you have to rely on them, or - even worse - boost their tack and react chemically, by heat and under discoloration with the guitar finish.
If there's any trick on my pickup attachment - which I can't see - it's the fact that it's possible, though not intended to result in a permanent installation, quite the opposite.

Natural cork is your friend - always a reason to open a wine bottle. It can also be tech cork - any jazz saxophone player has both variants ready to hand! Put it between the pickup and the neck-sided wall of the cradle. A pic above shows it. You could also extend the cork strip over the screw heads, not necessary in my eyes. Or use less flashy countersunk bolts, just keep in mind that the cradle steel sheet is only 1mm thick.


Yes, MoM (metal on metal) pairing can be detrimental. 20 and more years ago a minority of orthopaedic surgeons pointed to the general risks of MoM THR (total hip replacement), with few exceptions, now conspicuous: increased wear, abrasion, corrosion, toxic tissue reaction, and higher revision rates (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6549109/ ).

On guitars, MoM pairing isn't tragic because there's much less strain and movement, and, above all, no continous fluid environment. We find MoM on the tuner worms and gear, and between the strings and the frets. Hey, we all know how fast a heavy bending guitarist can wear out the strings and frets; in jazz, IMO, it's not a huge issue.

Strictly speaking, my pickups get a little bit marred by the tiny pointed setscrews I use, but their grip is rock solid. Since most of my gear is used and aged, like myself, most people wouldn't probably notice the insertions. It's like flyspeck, ubiquitous, or the prick scars we have to expect from the next vaccination or blood sampling.




<< That's pretty cool. One could also mount the mounting bracket to the guitar with 2-sided 3M foam mounting tape, for a less permanent installation.

Just a suggestion is to pad the screw heads so they don't mar the pickup or use some kind of strip between them, and turn the lower screws around to use as set screws, again with some kind of padding between the screw end and the pickup. My woodworking background--I hate to see metal on metal--it scratches and mars. Unless you don't care cause it's not visible. <<

[Doctor Jeff]

Now I realize those lower screws are set screws (i.e., headless). Makes sense.

I see your point about mounting on the end of the fretboard. I have mine mounted with a side stick. 2 tiny holes doesn't bother me much. And of course one can think of many types of material to use for padding, if you care about marks on the pickup.

[JazzDaddyD]

Does anyone else have problems getting a floating pickup at just the right height/ distance from the strings? I have been trying to get a pickup (a wonderful CC Rider from Pete Biltloft) installed on my '51 Triumph Regent. The distance from the strings seems to make a real big difference in the sound- too close, and she overheats, too far away, and I lose too much volume. The pickup has a tab to attach to the pick guard, but that is creating more issues as getting the pick guard at just the right angle comes into play as well. If the pick guard is not parallel to the strings, the pick up's bass end or treble end is closer than the the other. I wish there was a bracket of some kind available that allowed one to adjust the pickup in relation to the strings. Ideas? Thanks!

[rolijen]

I have not worked with a floating Charlie Christian style pickup. But, and I’m sure you know this, the pickguard should not move at all. It needs to be quite secure in order for any guard-mounted pickup to be viable. Once secured (either with screws or glued), you’ll carefully bend the tab on the pickup to allow the pickup to lay roughly equidistant from the strings. Perhaps very slightly lower under the bass strings. Without adjustable poles, your pickup may require you to try a couple times to get the perfect balance.

Here is installation info that may help:
https://www.archtop.com/PageMill_Res...uctions_p1.pdf

If it were my vintage guitar, I would have a new pickguard made and mount the pickup to it and save my original. If the neck end of the pickguard is held in place with a screw and a spacer is beneath the pickguard to elevate it, you may be able to adjust the pickup height by using a thicker or thinner spacer. Good luck!