Strings Too Loose?!

**JeffreyG** · 05-23-2017, 08:42 PM

Hi Jazzers,

I don't post here often, but I do lurk quite a bit. Anyways, here's my question:

I'm having an issue with an Ibanez As-80. I got it set up in December and I liked how it played quite a bit back then, but recently I feel as if the strings are very loose (yes, I have changed them

). They bend far too easily, especially the low E and A strings, which slows down my line playing. On my Gibson ES-335 with similar action, the strings have always been pretty taught and I much prefer how the Gibson plays to how the Ibanez plays. What can I do to make the strings feel "tighter" on my Ibanez?

Thanks in Advance

**miguelnight** · 05-23-2017, 08:59 PM

JeffreyG, I never heard of that problem. I personally trim my strings mainly for intonation and neatness. I recommend getting it professionally set up (action/intonation/truss rod, etc) then see what happens from there. Other players will chime in I'm sure. Good luck and keep jammin'.

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**Greentone** · 05-23-2017, 09:00 PM

I'm guessing that you may have moved to a lighter gauge string, no? When you do this things get pretty "bendy."

I find that unless you play with a very light touch, lighter gauge strings get to be kind of a PITA for bebop/jazz line playing. I prefer some resistance to the pick stroke as I plow through the strings. On my ES-335 I used to play with D'Addario "Chromes" flatwound strings, gauge .11-.50. Any lighter than that and I found that I was in the "funky/rock" territory. If I wanted to set up a guitar for playing Leo Nocentelli/Meters style guitar, I would use a set of .10-.48 roundwound strings. But for jazz, on a guitar like the AS80 or ES-335, .11-.50 or even .12-.52 is the way to go to give you the resistance that you want to permit you to flow through the long lines.

Of course, if you can develop a consistent, light touch, you can play a very light set and get away with it. Jim Hall did.

**JeffreyG** · 05-23-2017, 09:09 PM

Thanks for the quick responses!

Just to provide so more info- I have had chrome 12s on this guitar since I got it and I love how they sound, but they are just too easy to bend on my Ibanez compared to on my Gibson. I do love Jim Hall's playing, but tone-wise I aim to sound like Mike Moreno. It seems like he gets his sound by picking pretty harshly but without making the strings "thwack".

Perhaps the recent warming weather has been affecting the guitar?

**icr** · 05-23-2017, 10:28 PM

Here is a handy application for calculating your string tension:
String Tension Pro

**docbop** · 05-23-2017, 11:59 PM

That's odd because D'Addario are like the highest tension strings and why I've been using them for decades. The only thing I can image is something in the setup changes like the break angle on across bridge. Has the stop bar tailpiece been raised that's all I can think of, but there are some really knowledgable repair people here I'm sure can help you narrow down the source of the problem.

**MarkInLA** · 05-24-2017, 12:45 AM

What about the scale lengths of the 2 guitars ? Face to face are the necks and fingerboards the same length, fret spacing same,maybe even a mirror image ? Maybe it's a moot point..I don't know...M

**rio** · 05-24-2017, 01:32 AM

Has the action gotten lower? When you changed the strings, is the break angle at the head higher than before (like, are the strings higher up on the tuning posts than they were before)? That is pretty strange and I can't think of many things that would cause it.

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**WILSON 1** · 05-24-2017, 07:34 AM

This may be way off...but have you moved or do you leave the instrument exposed.

Only reason I post this is to note that up north my L-4 would dry and shrink to cause me to tune up.

Here now, in Florida it swells, if left out and causes me to tune down.

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**Greentone** · 05-24-2017, 08:18 AM

If you have taken all the relief out of the neck, you're going to get thwack and buzz with aggressive picking. Some folks like a ruler flat neck, but I prefer a bit of contour.

**icr** · 05-24-2017, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

making the strings "thwack".

Perhaps the recent warming weather has been affecting the guitar?

Warming strings decreases the tension, but, unless one wants to play below standard pitch, one would tune up to restore the tension.

**Ray175** · 05-24-2017, 08:54 AM

A+ to Greentone's remark about a minimum amount of relief. Hard picking will almost always generate a "thwak" if there is not enough relief - particularly on lower strings which require more space to vibrate

**setemupjoe** · 05-24-2017, 09:01 AM

I can relate to your problem. I have two guitars that I thought would have the same amount of tension on their necks but when I string them with the same strings one guitar has much firmer tension than the other. I asked my luthier why but he couldn't figure out why either. I ended up going with heavier strings on the other guitar until I got the tension I wanted.

**oldane** · 05-24-2017, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by icr

Warming strings decreases the tension, but, unless one wants to play below standard pitch, one would tune up to restore the tension.

Exactly. With a given string there's one and only one tension which will make the string play in tune up to pitch. Period.

Note, I'm talking about tension per se here, not percieved force needed to fret the string. This is dependent on several factors, among them string tension AND the height of the nut slots, the action, the relief. That however should not change the ease of bending laterally.

**Bluedawg** · 05-24-2017, 12:01 PM

I've encountered this with my 335 ... my 335 is a 1980 ES-335TD with the trapeze tailpiece as opposed to the stop tail piece on most of the new ones and classic 1950s versions.

I put 10s on it when I was more interested in using it as a blues rocker, but the 10s were just too slinky even when tuned to pitch. Whereas an LP with the same strings runs pretty taught at pitch.

I put it down to the trapeze tailpiece being more flexible than a stop tailpiece ... but that's just my theory.

Maybe different tensions on your tailpieces?

**setemupjoe** · 05-24-2017, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

I've encountered this with my 335 ... my 335 is a 1980 ES-335TD with the trapeze tailpiece as opposed to the stop tail piece on most of the new ones and classic 1950s versions.

I put 10s on it when I was more interested in using it as a blues rocker, but the 10s were just too slinky even when tuned to pitch. Whereas an LP with the same strings runs pretty taught at pitch.

I put it down to the trapeze tailpiece being more flexible than a stop tailpiece ... but that's just my theory.

Maybe different tensions on your tailpieces?

Exactly the same for me. On one guitar I have the Heritage H tailpiece and on the other I have the fingers tailpiece. I've always believed that's what made the difference.