Gibson P94 vs SD Phat Cat Pickup in a Gibson ES-175

**blille** · 05-21-2017, 10:39 AM

I would love to get the classic ES175 with dogear P90s tone in my Epiphone ES175 (yes, I know the classic 57 pickups are amazing, but I want to try this).

What would get me closer to that tone: a Gibson P94 or a SD Phat Cat? I'm only interested in the neck position. I'm a bit of a SD fanboy so all things equal I would go for the SD.

If you have one or the other I would love to hear your take. Thanks!

Phat Cat:
A2 magnet
8 dcr
1c braided shield

P94:
A5 magnet

**stringmaster** · 05-21-2017, 10:50 AM

It's been a while since I've played those but hey didn't leave a lasting impression. If I were after a bucker sized P-90 I'd likely pony up a few more bucks and go here:
ThroBak Pro-90 Humbucker Sized P90 Pickups - Best in Class

**M-ster** · 05-21-2017, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by blille

I would love to get the classic ES175 with dogear P90s tone in my Epiphone ES175 (yes, I know the classic 57 pickups are amazing, but I want to try this).

I'd love to hear about (and to hear) your final results. I keep toying with this idea, myself!

**blille** · 05-21-2017, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by stringmaster

It's been a while since I've played those but hey didn't leave a lasting impression. If I were after a bucker sized P-90 I'd likely pony up a few more bucks and go here:
ThroBak Pro-90 Humbucker Sized P90 Pickups - Best in Class

Thanks. So you do have those on a hollow body and you're happy with the tone? Close to ES175 dog ears?

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**blille** · 05-21-2017, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by M-ster

I'd love to hear about (and to hear) your final results. I keep toying with this idea, myself!

Definitely. What I'm thinking of doing now is to just move the neck 57 to bridge, sell the current bridge 57+ and put a P90 in the neck. That way I could swap pickups without rewiring. I never use the bridge.

**neatomic** · 05-21-2017, 05:28 PM

just for info, when you put a humbucker sized p90 in the humbucker rout its gonna change where the polepieces sit under the string...some people don't mind, but its not the way gibson and fender engineered it

here's a good comparison of 2 you mention, plus more..lollar etc..from the bunch at premier guitar

Humbucker-Sized P-90 Review Roundup | Premier Guitar

also, many have put an actual dogear p-90 in a humbucker rout..requires some carving and the right (under the pup) spacer...but is and can be done

cheers

**Gilpy** · 05-21-2017, 05:32 PM

I have a Phat Cat pickup that I really like. I've used it in the neck position on several guitars, and would recommend it. It has a sweet, warm sound, but not muddy. Good detail in the upper midrange and top end, but not harsh. Also, less noise/buzz compared to some P-90s I've had.

**stringmaster** · 05-21-2017, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by blille

Thanks. So you do have those on a hollow body and you're happy with the tone? Close to ES175 dog ears?

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I currently have a Guild X550 with Franz single coils, and a Collings I35 with P90's, and I've owned lots of P90 equipped guitars, including a '52 ES-5. I should have put a disclaimer in my post that I've never played the Throbak mentioned (only their humbuckers)--I was going off of the sound clips, the description, and the reputation of the maker. Just throwing up another option.

**maggles55** · 05-23-2017, 01:19 PM

I really like the Phat Cat in the neck position of my L4-CES. (but have not compared with any others besides the original Gibson HB).

**ruger9** · 05-23-2017, 04:22 PM

For cheap, the GFS Mean 90s get great reviews. The Mean 90s aren't really "mean": they are the closest to actual vintage spec...not the Dream 90s, which are described as "strat pickups in a P90 cover"... I've had the Mean 90s in an Epi Broadway, and they sounded REALLY good.

**rhoadsscholar** · 05-24-2017, 07:43 PM

I would trade you straight up a chrome p94 for a classic 57 neck position if interested.

**blille** · 05-25-2017, 01:44 AM

Thanks all!

Some great info. I have to admit I'm surprised nobody recommended the P94 yet.

I think I'll go with a Phat Cat, move the 57 from neck to bridge and if I really like it get a Mean GFS in the bridge to complement it for cheap

Originally Posted by neatomic

just for info, when you put a humbucker sized p90 in the humbucker rout its gonna change where the polepieces sit under the string...some people don't mind, but its not the way gibson and fender engineered it

here's a good comparison of 2 you mention, plus more..lollar etc..from the bunch at premier guitar

Humbucker-Sized P-90 Review Roundup | Premier Guitar

also, many have put an actual dogear p-90 in a humbucker rout..requires some carving and the right (under the pup) spacer...but is and can be done

Thanks for the article. The challenge with these is that most people review them with solid bodies and likely play rock. So what may well suck on a Les Paul to play punk may be perfect for me, that's why I asked in this forum for direct experience.

Could you tell me more about the pole piece position? Is that they are further away from the neck or something else?

If I really like the tone I may go for the permanent solution.

Originally Posted by Gilpy

I have a Phat Cat pickup that I really like. I've used it in the neck position on several guitars, and would recommend it. It has a sweet, warm sound, but not muddy. Good detail in the upper midrange and top end, but not harsh. Also, less noise/buzz compared to some P-90s I've had.

Great to hear, thanks.

Originally Posted by stringmaster

I currently have a Guild X550 with Franz single coils, and a Collings I35 with P90's, and I've owned lots of P90 equipped guitars, including a '52 ES-5. I should have put a disclaimer in my post that I've never played the Throbak mentioned (only their humbuckers)--I was going off of the sound clips, the description, and the reputation of the maker. Just throwing up another option.

Thanks for it

you definitely know your P90s.

Originally Posted by maggles55

I really like the Phat Cat in the neck position of my L4-CES. (but have not compared with any others besides the original Gibson HB).

Good to hear thx!

Originally Posted by ruger9

For cheap, the GFS Mean 90s get great reviews. The Mean 90s aren't really "mean": they are the closest to actual vintage spec...not the Dream 90s, which are described as "strat pickups in a P90 cover"... I've had the Mean 90s in an Epi Broadway, and they sounded REALLY good.

I've been reading online and the reviews are good. I may get one for the bridge to complement it and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by rhoadsscholar

I would trade you straight up a chrome p94 for a classic 57 neck position if interested.

Thanks for the offer! I'll keep it for now since it's an experiment. I'll take out the 57+

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**Little Jay** · 05-25-2017, 01:54 AM

Hmm. I think a P90 dogear cover could just cover the heightof the humbucker cut-out, just not the width.

If I were in your shoes, I would go for a Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90. That sounded almost as good as my original '47 P90 in my ES-125.

But then you would have to make the humbucker cutout wider and I guess you want to have it completely reversible, right?

*edit: I think it shoulf fit, read here:
Would P 90's fit in a humbucker slot? | Telecaster Guitar Forum

**Lobomov** · 05-25-2017, 04:48 AM

Now that suggestions have become more broad, there is also the Manhattan from Bare Knuckle Pickups. Not the cheapest option, but a good one.

P90 pickup advice needed

**ruger9** · 05-25-2017, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

Now that suggestions have become more broad, there is also the Manhattan from Bare Knuckle Pickups. Not the cheapest option, but a good one.

P90 pickup advice needed

Had I kept the Broadway, these are the pickups I would have put in it. I did alot of research on P90s, and after owning the Broadway awhile and getting to know how it was reacting to various pickups, if I was going with P90s the Manhattans would have definitely been my choice, for jazz/swing/western swing tones.

**blille** · 05-25-2017, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

If I were in your shoes, I would go for a Seymour Duncan Antiquity P90. That sounded almost as good as my original '47 P90 in my ES-125.

But then you would have to make the humbucker cutout wider and I guess you want to have it completely reversible, right?

*edit: I think it shoulf fit, read here:
Would P 90's fit in a humbucker slot? | Telecaster Guitar Forum

Yes, I would like the swap to be reversible.

The antiquity is a great reference but that's what confuses me of some magnet choices, mostly A5 but also A3.

Originally Posted by Lobomov

Now that suggestions have become more broad, there is also the Manhattan from Bare Knuckle Pickups. Not the cheapest option, but a good one.

P90 pickup advice needed

Originally Posted by ruger9

Had I kept the Broadway, these are the pickups I would have put in it. I did alot of research on P90s, and after owning the Broadway awhile and getting to know how it was reacting to various pickups, if I was going with P90s the Manhattans would have definitely been my choice, for jazz/swing/western swing tones.

Just heard the clips, it sounds really good, thanks for the reference.

Any opinions on why these have A3 magnet instead of A2?

I also found this thread https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...anhattans.html

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**Lobomov** · 05-25-2017, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by blille

Any opinions on why these have A3 magnet instead of A2?

I have no idea, but they usually reply to mails, so you could always ask them?

**blille** · 05-25-2017, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

I have no idea, but they usually reply to mails, so you could always ask them?

I'm not used to good customer service lol fair point. I just emailed them.

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**GNAPPI** · 05-26-2017, 04:32 AM

I don't own a Duncan Phat Cat but, I have an ES-195 with P-94's and wouldn't think of swapping them. I also have an Epi Sheraton that the PO put a P94 in the bridge position and while I rarely use it alone it sounds pretty darn good to my ears when I do, and mixed with the neck it's as good as it gets.

The P94 also responds better to the tone control than a HB does. Rolling the tone down on an HB can get muddy, the P94's I have do not get muddy. Since you mentioned the DCR of the Duncan, the P94 is ~7.7k and the wire is unshielded, but IMO, not noisy like a 50's P90 of which I have and have had more than a few.

Anyway, there's a few sound clips of ES-195's for you to check out. Most may have round wounds so you have to factor that in when you give them a listen.

**blille** · 05-26-2017, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lobomov

I have no idea, but they usually reply to mails, so you could always ask them?

And here's their reply:

"The earliest P90s often used Alnico III magnets which is part of the reason I use them in the Manhattan. Also, the Alnico III magnets produce a really pure tone which is perfect for the applications the Manhattan is designed for.
If you prefer Alnico II the Blue Note 90 would be worth checking out."

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**blille** · 05-26-2017, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Since you mentioned the DCR of the Duncan, the P94 is ~7.7k and the wire is unshielded, but IMO, not noisy like a 50's P90 of which I have and have had more than a few.

Anyway, there's a few sound clips of ES-195's for you to check out. Most may have round wounds so you have to factor that in when you give them a listen.

7.7k is neck?

Thanks for the ES195 suggestion, I'll check them out.

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**GNAPPI** · 05-26-2017, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by blille

7.7k is neck?
Thanks for the ES195 suggestion, I'll check them out.

No he installed it in the Bridge position, and is marked P94T on the underside. But the others I have N or T all fall between 7.7 and 8.0 the only real difference I can tell between them is the distance between the poles with the "T" poles being slightly wider.

**blille** · 05-26-2017, 05:16 PM

This is a good reference of the tone I'm going for.

Go to 1min 10 secs.

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**ruger9** · 05-26-2017, 05:24 PM

Here's something you should read/watch, from forum member Johnathan Stout... it's about how so many guys got their tone by using the volume knob... as in turning it down... very very interesting.... definitely gives that "old school" tone like that 175 has... and you notice Joel adjusted his vol knob a few times just in the first 1:20 of that video...

Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five, featuring Hilary Alexander - Swing Guitar Blog - Guitar Volume Knob Positions and Charlie Christian-type Tone

**Little Jay** · 05-27-2017, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Here's something you should read/watch, from forum member Johnathan Stout... it's about how so many guys got their tone by using the volume knob... as in turning it down... very very interesting.... definitely gives that "old school" tone like that 175 has... and you notice Joel adjusted his vol knob a few times just in the first 1:20 of that video...

Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five, featuring Hilary Alexander - Swing Guitar Blog - Guitar Volume Knob Positions and Charlie Christian-type Tone

Good reading! I tend to keep to keep the volume low as well. Fifties wiring also helps a lot. You have to get used to how the tone and volume interact, but once you get the hang of it you can use the tone more as a 'gain-control' even. It really works!