Your Thoughts on Powered Speakers with Archtops

[vernon]

Okay... so I am really liking the Sarno V8 tube preamp I've been running through the efx return of my little Quilter Mini and into a Buscarino Chameleon. So I've been wondering how the V8 would sound straight into an Alto Truesonic TS210 or 212... or a QSC K8 or K10... or something similar. Of course the Alto is much more affordable, but what are your experiences/thoughts? Thanks for your help!

[Greentone]

Herb Ellis used to travel with his guitar and a preamp. His contract called for the venue to provide an amp. Often, the amp was meh. Ellis ran the preamp into the PA.

You can achieve the same thing with your preamp and a powered speaker. Give it a go.

[oldane]

With the right preamp you can get good results and there are many good ones out there. I own and like the Sansamp Paradriver DI, which is very flexible, has XLR output in addition to normal jack, can run on a battery, a wall wart or phantom power (via the XLR connection). Many use them directly into a PA.

[BigToe]

one thing i noticed when plugging my Kingsley Jester directly to a FRFR cab is the lack of the guitar cabinet/speaker resonance. I added a Logidy Epsi to the chain and noticed a huge improvement. Looking at the Sarno it seems your EQ options are limited. That might be a hinderance with flat response speakers and you might notice the lack of a mid range presence.

[vernon]

Thanks for the feedback. The points you raise make sense to me... potential lack of midrange, cabinet resonance, etc. I've got plenty of eq capabilities in the efx chain. At this point, this is still in the realm of experimentation, so I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on a $250--300 item that I might end up putting on CL. I've borrowed a smaller Yamaha 8" 100 watt, but it just doesn't have the umph to give me a decent idea whether it might work or not. What I'm getting from the Buscarino Chameleon is really really fine - I was just wondering if class d amplification in these Alto, EV, QSC cabs had advanced sufficiently. I think I can handle flat response as long as I can get enough warmth and fullness in the low end.

[jads57]

So you might try some different pedals from Sansamp (Character Series) or maybe even less expensive Joyo preamp pedals (American,British,etc) even Mooer is offering micro preamp pedals now. You might want add a reverb pedal as well!

[Cunamara]

I've had good results with the Alto TS110a powered speaker, sending the signal through either the Para Driver DI mentioned by olddane or a Zoom MS100bt doing cheap and cheerful amp/speaker sim/EQ and reverb. The PDDI is closer to the Polytone type sound, very clean and clear but warmth isnreadily obtained, and the Zoom can do a lot of other sounds. It's also easy to get a good acoustic guitar sound. Feedback seems to be less of a problem than with my tube amp, about the same as with my Clarus 2r/RE12.

[vernon]

Thanks Cunamara, that was helpful information. I've made an offer on an Alto - so I'll see if he goes for it.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

I have an Alto TS110a, 2 QSC K8s, and a QSC K12. The Alto is a great value but the QSCs sound better. I mention this because you seem to be a "top-shelf kind of guy". FYI I have inserted some statistics from Amazon USA. The QSCs are considerably more expensive, but they significantly outsell the Alto. Admittedly, the numbers are hard to compare because the categories that Amazon provides are not identical across all these items, and because the TS110a is discontinued and replaced by the TS210.

FWIW, I should be unloading my Alto 10 and QSC 12. The 8s are more than plenty enough for my limited and very amateur needs, and they sound as good as the 12 to me for guitar. They actually disperse better. I have heard more experienced players than me say that the QSC 10 is a good compromise. The 12" is just too damn heavy IMHO.

As for preamps, there is no shortage. I like the Ethos Clean, which has a speaker emulator built in and works well with FRFR speakers. Get yourself a Boss style wall wart and you're ready to travel.


-- Hope that helps, and good luck whichever way you go.

[rpjazzguitar]

I've had good results with the Alto TS110a powered speaker, sending the signal through either the Para Driver DI mentioned by olddane or a Zoom MS100bt doing cheap and cheerful amp/speaker sim/EQ and reverb. The PDDI is closer to the Polytone type sound, very clean and clear but warmth isnreadily obtained, and the Zoom can do a lot of other sounds. It's also easy to get a good acoustic guitar sound. Feedback seems to be less of a problem than with my tube amp, about the same as with my Clarus 2r/RE12.

I tried the Alto TS110a based on recommendations from people who were driving it with a Axe FX or similar.

I wanted to drive it with a Boss Me80.

According to the specs, it should have worked, but it turned out that it needed more voltage than the ME80 could supply (at least with the tone I wanted). I could compensate by turning the Alto volume to around 3 o'clock but then the bass frequencies were way too prominent. It required a preamp. I assume that it would have sounded great with the proper preamplification, but the whole point was to simplify my rig, so I went back to a combo amp.

[jorgemg1984]

I really dislike how a powered speaker sounds without digital cab emulation (impulse responses).... even analog simulations don't really make it. It's nice to choose a speaker that accepts instrument level, so you don't need to feed a lot of signal into it. I asked for that in my Mambo PA cabs and it works great!

[sgosnell]

Probably not more voltage, but more amperage. I've seen a lot of things that don't work because they don't get enough power, although the voltage is correct. Power supplies come in various ratings, and I try to get at least 2 amp rating. Many cheap ones are as low as .5 amp or less. Sometimes lower power works, but not well, as you may see with a low-power phone charger, which may charge your phone, albeit very slowly, while a more powerful charger will speed-charge it. It's always worthwhile to pay attention to the power ratings on a power supply, and it's worth the extra money to get higher specs for many applications. OTOH some devices only need .25 amp or less, so no need for a 2 amp supply, although it won't hurt the device at all.

[rpjazzguitar]

Probably not more voltage, but more amperage. I've seen a lot of things that don't work because they don't get enough power, although the voltage is correct. Power supplies come in various ratings, and I try to get at least 2 amp rating. Many cheap ones are as low as .5 amp or less. Sometimes lower power works, but not well, as you may see with a low-power phone charger, which may charge your phone, albeit very slowly, while a more powerful charger will speed-charge it. It's always worthwhile to pay attention to the power ratings on a power supply, and it's worth the extra money to get higher specs for many applications. OTOH some devices only need .25 amp or less, so no need for a 2 amp supply, although it won't hurt the device at all.

I hadn't thought about that. I used the Boss power supply that Boss recommends. Are you saying that a power supply with a higher amperage rating might have made the difference?

[sgosnell]

It could. I can't say for sure from long distance, but I've seen several instances where a device just didn't work, or worked poorly, until a more powerful power supply was used. You need to check both the device being powered and the power supply, and make sure the power supply provides at least the amperage listed for the device to be powered, and more is usually better.

[vernon]

Thanks HighSpeedSpoon... yes, I think you're right. I would probably only be satisfied with the QSC K8 - and I'm not willing to spend $500 at this point. Need a refret more than experimenting with speaker cabs.

[Spook410]

It's too bad that speakers like Schertler Jam 200 extensions are so expensive. They do a much better job of generating acoustic sounds than a guitar amp.