1964 Gibson ES-125

[Dutchbopper]

I was listening to Dutchbopper's take on Kenny Burrell's "Midnight Blue." (1) Great playing. (2) The sound of the Gibson ES-125 is both different and, dare I say it, _better_ than the ES-175. I know that it was a beginner's guitar. Having owned both guitars, however, I can say that I agree with Dutchbopper that the lighter 125 got a better tone for both jazz and blues than the 175.

A really good example of a 50s, P90-equipped 175 is virtually on par with a 125, but in general I'd prefer a 125.

Now, finding one that hasn't been parted out is another matter.

Thanks. I have a very nice 175 (a 1982 one with Tim Shaw pups and mahogany back and sides) but I haven't touched it much since the arrival of my 125. Also my Tal and my Kessel experience serious competition.

I dunno. There is something magical about a 125. Martijn van Iterson (without any doubt the world's best 125 jazz guitar player and probably one of the best in all other categories too ) said he has not yet found a guitar that inspires him more.

It is simply not possible to get more vintage Gibson ES mojo for your bucks.

DB

[mr. beaumont]

I knew you were gonna get hooked on that guitar!

[Little Jay]

Haha, I can see the add already:

For sale: ES-175, Tal Farlow,....

[Dutchbopper]

Haha, I can see the add already: For sale: ES-175, Tal Farlow,....

Well, that's stretching it a bit. I have never really been a one guitar guy ...

DB

[ruger9]

With the archtop market hopping right now (with D'Angelico and Godin especially), Gibson really should do a RI of the 125- and NOT a VOS that few of us can afford, just make a workingman's ES-125 and price it relatively affordable... heck, have Epi make one even!

[Greentone]

ruger9,

That's a superb idea. Me, I'm probably just going to re-purchase my old 125. (The guy I sold it to is offering it back to me.) Otherwise, I'd be a candidate to see what Gibson/Epiphone could come up with regarding a reissue. I definitely agree with DB concerning the vintage jazz mojo per buck spent concept. Nothing comes close to the ES-125.

GT

[nopedals]

I was in a GC the other day that had two ES125 style guitars. One was a loar and the other one an epiphone. Both were nice players and reasonably priced. A Gibson reissue would be no better and likely priced higher than a vintage original.

[Dutchbopper]

I was in a GC the other day that had two ES125 style guitars. One was a loar and the other one an epiphone. Both were nice players and reasonably priced. A Gibson reissue would be no better and likely priced higher than a vintage original.

A reissue would not make much sense. It'd be way more expensive and without the vintage mojo. Why buy a reissue if you can buy the real deal for way less?

DB

[ruger9]

I was in a GC the other day that had two ES125 style guitars. One was a loar and the other one an epiphone. Both were nice players and reasonably priced. A Gibson reissue would be no better and likely priced higher than a vintage original.

Epi? I'd like to see a model number... the only Epi I know of that even comes close (and it's not close) is the Emperor, with is a floating mini-humbucker.

But the Loar does kinda do it, and also maybe the Godin 1-pickup model, altho that P90 is right up against the neck, and not set back like the ES-125 (and the Loar).

the Loar has really interested me, but I have read VERY mixed reviews...

[ruger9]

A reissue would not make much sense. It'd be way more expensive and without the vintage mojo. Why buy a reissue if you can buy the real deal for way less?

DB

Sure it would. Same reason Epi is now making a Johnny A for $999.... for those of us who simply can't afford a $4000 guitar (or an $8000 private reserve one).

Besides, "way less"? IDK.... what are vintage ES-125s going for these days? If Epi came out with an accurate RI at $1000, I think it would sell well.

[nopedals]

Epi? I'd like to see a model number... the only Epi I know of that even comes close (and it's not close) is the Emperor, with is a floating mini-humbucker.

But the Loar does kinda do it, and also maybe the Godin 1-pickup model, altho that P90 is right up against the neck, and not set back like the ES-125 (and the Loar).

the Loar has really interested me, but I have read VERY mixed reviews...

Epiphone Inspired by “1966” Century Archtop

[Little Jay]

Epiphone Inspired by “1966” Century Archtop

Yup! If they only add full depth rims to it, they would have a winner!

(Although I would prefer the body contours to stay truer to the original as well.)

[ruger9]

Epiphone Inspired by “1966” Century Archtop

Well well well. I missed this. Will have to do some investigating. Thanks!

Hmm... so lower bout is too big, and it's not really deep enough (compared to an ES-125).... "close but no cigar"? Loar LH-309 is still the closest?

The Loar - Archtop Acoustic LH-309-VS

[yebdox]

Late to the party, but great playing DB, the best I've heard from you yet, and inspiring me to want one, as well! I've been listening to Van Iterson for the last year, and between him and Van Ruller, I'm feeling the need for a 125 and a double cutaway 150. In reality, I should just practice more!

Thanks for the contributions you make to this forum!

[mr. beaumont]

Well well well. I missed this. Will have to do some investigating. Thanks!

Hmm... so lower bout is too big, and it's not really deep enough (compared to an ES-125).... "close but no cigar"? Loar LH-309 is still the closest?

The Loar - Archtop Acoustic LH-309-VS

Ugh, no. They look the part...and that's about it.

Godin Kingpin is the only current, budget guitar that comes close to the 125 vibe.

[yebdox]

DB, what is the nut width on your new guitar? I saee that yours is from '64, did they start narrowing the necks on the 125's the way they did on the 175's in the 60's? I don't know if they started that change that early. I like fat necks, personally.

[Dutchbopper]

IDK.... what are vintage ES-125s going for these days? If Epi came out with an accurate RI at $1000, I think it would sell well.

Though prices have been going up lately, I think you sgould still be able to get one well under 2k US dollars. Just ignore the ones over 2k.

I saw a completely original one from the late 50s in great condition go for slightly under 1400 euro (winning bid) on Ebay. Location was Paris, France. That was cheap. 1800 is more likely. I got mine for that.

I am not familiar with the current ES 125 reissues of other brands but I doubt even Gibson could recreate a 125 with the same vibe as a vintage one. They just don't make laminates like that anymore. A vintage 125 is of a very light build and therefore very responsive. At the time they used different laminates and different glues, naturally dried woods and what have you. You won't get that in a reissue. Not even in a Gibson one.

And what are we talking about anyway. A vintage 50s or 60s Gibson ES guitar for under 2k ... I don't see what the problem is

DB

[Dutchbopper]

DB, what is the nut width on your new guitar? I saee that yours is from '64, did they start narrowing the necks on the 125's the way they did on the 175's in the 60's? I don't know if they started that change that early. I like fat necks, personally.

It has the standard 1 11/16" nut width. I don't play guitars with narrower necks.

By the way. This is my second ES 125. I used to own a 1951 one earlier. I like the 64 one slightly better. But they are very similar.

DB

[ruger9]

Ugh, no. They look the part...and that's about it.

Godin Kingpin is the only current, budget guitar that comes close to the 125 vibe.

Well, like I said, I've both rants and raves on the Loar... perhaps their QC isn't great, and you could get either a lemon or a gem? The pickup placement is right (not up against the neck like the Godin), the top is right- well for a 150 anyway-(hand carved spruce), the look is right...

For me, that pickup placement is a big deal... I've never owned an ES-125, but I have owned alot of guitars, alot of pickups, and a few archtops. I think the ES-125/150 (and Loar) pickup placement make them unique, at least when plugged in. I don't think the 125 ever sounds like the "standard P90 neck pickup on an archtop".

I've played the Godin, they're pretty nice.

[mr. beaumont]

The pickup placement i's pretty much the same--the Godin has 21 frets plus enough wood for a 22nd.

[ruger9]

The pickup placement i's pretty much the same--the Godin has 21 frets plus enough wood for a 22nd.

Hmm... It would be nice to have actual measurements to compare. A little bridge-to-pickup distance can make a big difference in the sound of a neck pickup. But I do see what you're saying... Godin chose to fill up the empty space with more fretboard. I prefer the look of the Loar (with the empty space) simply because it looks like an ES-125. But I wouldn't buy one sight unplayed due to the QC issues I have read about.

[Greentone]

ruger 9 is correct. The pickup placement on both the Godin and the Loar is about the same. It's just that Godin has a long fretboard.

Both guitars are good entry-level jazz guitars. In general, I am a fan of Loar guitars, but I would give the nod to the Godin in this case. It has been played by lots and lots of folks and is highly regarded.

(Still, a vintage ES-125--if at all possible--is the way to go. Dutchbopper is completely correct about the sound of the old plywoods employed by Gibson in the 50s and early 60s.)

[ruger9]

ebay ES-125's start at $1500 - that considerably more than "a little more" than buying a new Godin or Loar. (there is one with the bidding starting at $1200...)

If I was a "vintage freak" (I never have been) OR a serious jazz player (I wish), I could totally see saving up for the real thing. But for someone who just likes to play some chord melody here and there, some Body & Soul, Nightingale Sang in Berkley Square, etc... a little western swing, etc... it seems the Godin and Loar are both nice alternatives.

I've always been like that with vintage gear tho- for example, rather than have a vintage Fender Deluxe tweed, I'd purchase a new clone of such from Tungsten Amps. I'd rather have a new Fender MIA tele that I "relic" myself over many years to a vintage one that other people have reliced. HOWEVER- in this case, with this guitar, it does seem the only way to get the same guitar that CC played is to buy a vintage ES-125/ES-150 (I see alot less 150s for sale than 125s). Something about 60-to-70-year-old wood....

[mad dog]

I have wanted to appreciate Loar and Godin guitars in that ES-125 way. So far, no dice. The Godins are well made instruments, but the P90s are not much like the old Gibsons, and the sound/feel is quite different. Maybe due to wood choice? The Loars look the part, but everyone I've picked up felt cheap, dead. Perhaps I was trying the lower models.

So I keep looking at ES-125s and ES-150s. Someday the right one will come along.
MD