The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    My Washburn J6 sounds better than any of these. Because only a Washburn sounds like a Washburn and at my age why should settle for anything less?

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I was prepared to be wrong between the Aria and the L-5 and I was. The Epi was easy for me to pick out.

    There are two reasons why I preferred the Aria (though my preference was so marginal, that all things being equal, I would still choose the L-5 for its looks alone over the Aria):

    1) The Aria is a laminate and I probably, being primarily an ES-175 player prefer the laminate sound in an electric archtop; and

    2) The Aria has many years of aging on the L-5. Age dries out the wood and the sound, and I like it dry.

    Still, this test justified to me the high current prices on the classic lawsuit Ibanez copies of classic Gibson models.

    @ Lawson, keep that L-5. I think with time it will sound as good or better than the Aria and it will inspire your playing more. Keep the Aria as a backup and sell the Epi.
    thanks. No question, I'm definitely keeping the L5. As someone above noted, sound is important but not the only thing. The whole experience playing the L5 is just delicious, and to my highly subjective, brand-loyal fan-boy ears, the L5 gives me a lot back when I play it.

    The Aria also has that aged quality the you mentioned, that I like. I will likely sell the Epiphone mainly because it's totally unmodified, has the original case and papers, and is a stunning, near-mint specimen of a super-rare archtop that I think I can ask a pretty nice price for and be confident I'm giving my buyer a truly deluxe guitar. The Aria, well, I've had pickups in and out, the truss rod is maxed out (though the setup for me is perfect), no original case, etc. etc.

    The L5 is the keeper, though. It's nice to be able honestly to say, though, that this very well informed, experienced group had a hard time hearing big differences among any of these three guitars. It gives me some confidence in presenting the instrument.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    So, since I was the first one to post the right answer, I get either the Epi or the Aria for free, right? I'll take the Epi. And just to show you what a heckuva guy I am, I'll split the shipping cost with you :-)

    Joohn
    I think you and I could have a really fun evening of conversation. I like your style!

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamScott
    What you did was great for randomizing, but it doesn't control for order. Like taste buds drowning in pepsi and coke, ears are similar. If you are really interested in this you could start with this study, and then read the ones that have followed. But I don't recommend it. The gist of it all is that people asked to discriminate sounds were shown to be affected by the order in which the sounds were presented. Order effects are found everywhere, especially so in preference and attitude measures. The way to eliminate them as an explanation for test results can't really be done on a forum such as this one. If Pepsi was really interested in a taste challenge, they would randomly have half of the people get Pepsi first and the other half would get Coke first. By the way, I've used this example over many years in class and about 80% of everyone prefers the soft drink that is presented first. Pepsi does not win in a well-controlled Pepsi Challenge. It's a draw.

    So when we have 3 guitars to compare, there are 6 possible orders of presentation (123,132,213,231,321,312). We need to make a video for each of these orders and randomly assign people to the 6 different listening groups. Then we can separate the order effect from the guitar effect. If we found that people tended to like the first one heard, or couldn't distinguish the first two from each other but could hear a difference in the third, we would know it was because of the order and not the guitar. Or, conversely, we could see it is always the Aria vs. the L-5 that is hard, not first vs. second. Of course, if we find an effect of order, we don't particularly know where it is coming from. For example, it could be "firstness" or it could be the particular notes that are played at the beginning of the solo. I can't think of a way to do this kind of study using the Jazz Guitar Forum. Giving repeated examples, as you did, is a good thing but it doesn't eliminate bias. If I hear the first guitar and I say to myself "I like that", then the next time I see that I am hearing guitar1, I might say to myself, perhaps unconsciously, "that's the one I like".

    There are a huge number of variables that could be controlled in studying these three guitars. Many have been mentioned in previous posts. You did a great job of controlling a bunch of the important ones. The lesson I have taken from all your work is that there is very little difference in the recorded electric sound of these 3 guitars, and I thank you for showing that to me so clearly.

    BTW, if you are trying to decide whether to sell the Aria or the Epiphone, and you sit down to do an AB comparison, I suggest you do an AB today but then go away and sit down for a BA tomorrow.
    thanks for the suggestions. I really mean that. I doubt I could meet all of your standards, and I understand the problems of randomization and trying to quantify all this. I hope my demonstration was not entirely without value for you. Perhaps you are in a better position to post such side-by-side blind comparisons than I am. I look forward to seeing your clips.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I think you and I could have a really fun evening of conversation. I like your style!
    I'll be Louis to your Rick ...

    John

  7. #81

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    I hope I'm not boring you all with these side-by-sides. I did another one, played it fresh, playing directly into the ProSonus Audiobox iTwo interface, which then went to the iPhone Lightning port. No EQ, no speaker, no reverb. I was wondering what the "raw" sound from the pickups would sound like. I don't know if I learned much from this, but it was fun.

    No attempt here to mask the guitars, though I did try something to lessen the "first case bias" problem.


  8. #82

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    Lawson, I think that if you put a wood saddle on the L-5 it would sound better. The Aria has a wood saddle and is slightly warmer.

  9. #83

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    Lawson,

    I thought the same thing about the wood saddle...although my PE has a tune-o-matic saddle on it, at this point, and sounds quite fat.

  10. #84
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    rio
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    I have had both the original wood saddle and a newer tunomatic on my '70 L5 and the wood one is definitely warmer - it was a noticeable difference, although the tone with the tunomatic wasn't bad I definitely prefer the wood one.


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