Gibson L-5 CES Copies and the Real Thing

**lawson-stone** · 03-30-2017, 09:43 PM

So this was a weird project. I played the identical solo on 3 different guitars: an Epiphone Elitist Broadway, an Aria Pro II PE180, and a Gibson L5ces.

Then I've chained segments together switching among the 3 guitars.

Don't even ask why I tried to do something so bizarre… but it's a fun side-by-side-by-side exercise that shows just how well the EEB and the Aria PE180 stack up, which is actually quite nicely.

All were recorded with V/T at 10, Polytone Minibrute II EQ'd flat all the way across, amp was mic'd with a Bluebird set about 3 feet away, running into a PreSonus Audiobox iTwo and thence via USB/Lightning to my iPhone 6s.

I plan to sell the Epiphone pretty soon, so perhaps this will help some potential buyer make up their mind!

REVISED CLIP: Panning was messed up on the earlier version, fixed on this one. Guitar is always in the right channel (or left if you have your headset on backwards!)

**BeBopBeCool** · 03-31-2017, 12:20 AM

3 little babies! Great sounding.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**R Neil** · 03-31-2017, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

So this was a weird project. I played the identical solo on 3 different guitars: an Epiphone Elitist Broadway, an Aria Pro II PE180, and a Gibson L5ces.

Then I've chained segments together switching among the 3 guitars.

Don't even ask why I tried to do something so bizarre… but it's a fun side-by-side-by-side exercise that shows just how well the EEB and the Aria PE180 stack up, which is actually quite nicely.

All were recorded with V/T at 10, Polytone Minibrute II EQ'd flat all the way across, amp was mic'd with a Bluebird set about 3 feet away, running into a PreSonus Audiobox iTwo and thence via USB/Lightning to my iPhone 6s.

I plan to sell the Epiphone pretty soon, so perhaps this will help some potential buyer make up their mind!

What range you thinking on the Epi? Just ...idle curiosity ...

Stumbling fingers still need love ...

**helios** · 03-31-2017, 05:41 AM

A blind test would be very difficult!

**Klatu** · 03-31-2017, 06:53 AM

How come you're getting rid of the Epiphone Elitist?

**plasticpigeon** · 03-31-2017, 08:13 AM

Epiphone is louder which can alter perceptions, and sounds more shrill! Gibson and Aria are quite similar sounding to my cloth ears. I bet with some fiddling about they could all sound very similar. A really interesting video, thanks for putting it together. Which do you like most?

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

How come you're getting rid of the Epiphone Elitist?

Maybe I'm not too smart?

The main reason is that it is the closest to the L5ces, which I have. The Aria is in the ballpark, but I'm betting (thought I haven't been able to verify) that it's more like the 70's era L5ces. The tone is a bit different. Also, the Epiphone is in near-mint condition, no modifications of any kind, and the case is the nicest case of any guitar I've ever owned. Also, the Epiphone Elitist Broadway in sunburst is a pretty rare bird on the archtop market, and I think I'll get the best price for it.

The actual reason I am selling either the Aria or the Epi is to "pay back" the family checkbook for the L5!

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

Epiphone is louder which can alter perceptions, and sounds more shrill! Gibson and Aria are quite similar sounding to my cloth ears. I bet with some fiddling about they could all sound very similar. A really interesting video, thanks for putting it together. Which do you like most?

As a player, the L5ces has a feeling that is quite remarkable. I honestly expected to be under-whelmed, but I wasn't. It's truly a magnificent guitar that is also a very player-friendly, player-stroking guitar.

Of the Epiphone and Aria, honestly I love them both equally. The Epiphone has the regal, luxurious feel that the L5 has, and the smooth tone. The craftsmanship on it is superb, and it's solid wood, though I think it's pressed rather than carved. The Aria just feels good. It feels like a 15 year old Mercedes, worn in all the right places but running like a watch. The finish has a lot of checking on the binding, and it's laminate, but it has a real thunk that I like.

It's different enough from the L5 that the Epi, which is closer to the L5 in every way, is the "redundant" guitar.

**Max405** · 03-31-2017, 10:38 AM

To my ear, the Aria is surprisingly good.
But to my ears, the L5 has the tightest, widest gamut of sound. The most pleasing to listen to. Without a doubt.
Cool Video. I didn't expect you to jump from guitar to guitar like that. Well done.
Joe D

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

To my ear, the Aria is surprisingly good.
But to my ears, the L5 has the tightest, widest gamut of sound. The most pleasing to listen to. Without a doubt.
Cool Video. I didn't expect you to jump from guitar to guitar like that. Well done.
Joe D

What made it work was a note-for-note memorized Jimmy Raney solo and the backing track insuring absolutely correct and consistent time. I lined the 3 clips up so they played exactly together, then deleted sections of clips to produce the final version.

I agree, the L5ces has a ton of nuance and complexity that I love, in addition to the incredible feel simply playing it. And yes, the Aria is a huge surprise to almost everyone who has ever actually played one. The Epiphone is superb, but the Aria is the one I think I'll keep between the two.

**Stringswinger** · 03-31-2017, 11:00 AM

Very cool Lawson! While I like the L-5 the best, the Aria is a VERY close second. To my ears, the Epi has a less round sound. In a blind test, I am sure that the Epi would come in last, but I do admit that I might pick the Aria. The Aria has had a 30 year head start on the L-5. I imagine that the L-5 will sound even better in 30 years (though I would not bet that I will still be around to hear it! )

**Guitarbean25** · 03-31-2017, 12:19 PM

Ok...now THAT is a great video.

Try it again but don't show what guitar your playing...just indicate that a different guitar is being played. I bet most won't know what is what!

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Guitarbean25

Ok...now THAT is a great video.

Try it again but don't show what guitar your playing...just indicate that a different guitar is being played. I bet most won't know what is what!

I'd have to mix up the segments, and then, it would be hard to "watch" since the instruments would be obscured… maybe just the sound track with some indication of the change...

**Guitarbean25** · 03-31-2017, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I'd have to mix up the segments, and then, it would be hard to "watch" since the instruments would be obscured… maybe just the sound track with some indication of the change...

Yeah...exactly...you can just show a slide show of pictures of each of the guitars flashing randomly...which could add to the bias effect a bit, to really make things interesting.

...then redo everything in a social setting like a nightclub....then it's game over

**Guitarbean25** · 03-31-2017, 12:38 PM

By the way, Lawson...are you a professor somewhere? The room you recorded seems to take me back to office hours at Berkeley.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-31-2017, 12:47 PM

What are you looking to get for the Epi ? There value has actually gone up. I bought one brand new when they were being made for $1600.00. Even Musicians Friend was selling them new for $1995.00 which was the list price. I've seen mint used ones selling for more than new. The Epi Elitist Broadway and Byrdland were good buys and obviously good sells also.

**sgosnell** · 03-31-2017, 01:00 PM

Perhaps one reason the Epi sounds different is that it's panned very differently. The other two are only on the left channel of my system, along with the backing track. The Epi is on the right, and the track stays on the left. I get the backing track solely on the left channel, and the only thing I ever hear from the right channel is the Epi, and it really jumps out from the silence there. That's not the only thing that makes it sound different, of course, but it certainly has an effect.

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Guitarbean25

By the way, Lawson...are you a professor somewhere? The room you recorded seems to take me back to office hours at Berkeley.

Yes, I'm a professor of Old Testament and a bunch of other stuff at a graduate school of theology.

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

What are you looking to get for the Epi ? There value has actually gone up. I bought one brand new when they were being made for $1600.00. Even Musicians Friend was selling them new for $1995.00 which was the list price. I've seen mint used ones selling for more than new. The Epi Elitist Broadway and Byrdland were good buys and obviously good sells also.

I'm a little hesitant to ponder in public what I might ask for it.

I was going to hit eBay, Reverb, GC, etc. for a spread of representative prices, but I cannot find one single sunburst Epi Elitist Broadway for sale!

This one is very good to near mint, and the original case is fabulous, and I have all the paperwork that came in the case from the first buyer. So I think it should be priced near the top end of the range, but I can't find enough (any) examples of the range!

**lawson-stone** · 03-31-2017, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by sgosnell

Perhaps one reason the Epi sounds different is that it's panned very differently. The other two are only on the left channel of my system, along with the backing track. The Epi is on the right, and the track stays on the left. I get the backing track solely on the left channel, and the only thing I ever hear from the right channel is the Epi, and it really jumps out from the silence there. That's not the only thing that makes it sound different, of course, but it certainly has an effect.

Yes, somehow I goofed that up. I might see if I can find the originals and re-do it.

**R Neil** · 03-31-2017, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Yes, I'm a professor of Old Testament and a bunch of other stuff at a graduate school of theology.

Almost asked about that myself, as looking at the vid I thought to check your profile. Our daughter graduated from the Lutheran Thological Seminary at Gettysburg. We have perhaps more than normal interest in and familiarity with such things ...

Stumbling fingers still need love ...

**Guitarbean25** · 03-31-2017, 01:56 PM

...so I'm listening to the Ed Bickert & Don Thompson album right now through my stereo and I thought of this thread. Ed's telecaster, at least to my ears, sounds like it could be a big L-5 (Eagle, Aria, Epi, etc) at times.

**carlescountry** · 03-31-2017, 02:00 PM

Bearing in mind that the Epi is different panned, and leaving aside the feeling of each guitar, the L5 and the Aria are the closest in sound. It is difficult to differentiate them in a blind audition in that recording. Epi sounds slightly less round, IMHO.
Great test, thanks!

On the other hand, what lighting do you use in your videos?

**Greentone** · 03-31-2017, 02:19 PM

Lawson,

Superb video. All three guitars acquit themselves well, and your playing is very nimble. Of course, all three guitars are played into one of your Polytones, I take it?

I must say that I found the rankings to be L-5, PE-180, and Elitist. Everything was pretty close, though. I am always surprised at how warm the Matsumoku guitars sound--even when directly compared with the Gibson products.