Budget leather straps

[Klatu]

I was hoping you all could chime in on budget leather straps that you could recommend. A little bit ago, I pulled the trigger on a couple of Perri's leather straps that were on sale at Musiciansfriend.com, but was very disappointed in their quality. I was under the mistaken impression that all leather was soft and comfortable, but what I got was hard and uncomfortable. Luckily, I got both Perri's straps for $10, so I can dismiss the loss as a learning experience; however, I wouldn't want it to happen again.

Are there simple, unadorned soft leather straps available at budget prices, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[mr. beaumont]

How budget is budget?

I have a few leather Levy's straps, from guitar center. They have a little "tooling" on them, but I think there's a plain version. About $30, IIRC. Good straps though, nice rough underside so it doesn't slip off your shoulder, and comfortable overall.

[goldenwave77]

Why leather? It's heavy, expensive, bulky, and stretches out.

Parachute nylon is light, cheap, thinner, and very strong.

[Klatu]

How budget is budget?

I have a few leather Levy's straps, from guitar center. They have a little "tooling" on them, but I think there's a plain version. About $30, IIRC. Good straps though, nice rough underside so it doesn't slip off your shoulder, and comfortable overall.

$30 sounds fair. My problem was that I bought at a below rock bottom price of 2 for $10. Surely I was expecting too much.

[GNAPPI]

I use thew "old squaw" method of softening hard leather straps, with my gums...

Seriously I just work the strap folded backwards on itself (finished side to finished side) while doing something mundane like watching TV or drinking a beer at the fire pit and they soften up really nicely in very little time. You "could" use something like neatsfoot on it to make them really soft, but I don't want anything on the strap to stain or mar the finish of the git.

I'd buy straps 2 for $10 all day long.

[John A.]

Why leather? It's heavy, expensive, bulky, and stretches out.

Parachute nylon is light, cheap, thinner, and very strong.

- Nylon is usually slippery; leather straps usually have suede on the inward-facing side so that they don't slip; makes a big difference on neck-heavy instruments.
- IME, leather straps last pretty much forever. I have one that's at least 20 years old; the holes are stretched out, but that's what Grolsch is for.
- Nylon straps typically have leather ends/strap-pin holes, which stretch as much as on all-leather straps.

In nylon's favor:

- More color/design options
- Usually cheaper
- It seems like you can't get leather straps with sliders anymore, but all the nylon ones have 'em.

John

[Top of the Arch!]

Check out Walker Williams straps! They are very nice for the money, most less than $30 and they have glove leather backs to boot! They can be found on Ebay with free shipping and from the WW web page with $2 shipping. Bob

[goldenwave77]

[QUOTE=John A.;749813]- Nylon is usually slippery; leather straps usually have suede on the inward-facing side so that they don't slip; makes a big difference on neck-heavy instruments.

Try tying your guitar strap around the neck/headstock. The guitar will now have support at the two ends of the instrument...it is now perfectly balanced and not going anywhere. We don't need friction from the nap of the leather to hold the guitar from moving.

OR continue to use the traditional "solution" of the drilled in strap piece at the neck join: Now your neck join "balance point" is in the middle of the two mass points of the guitar---like a seesaw....no wonder people complain about "Neck Dive" and "Head Heavy" guitars: I can't change the fundamentals of physics, and how a lever, and balance points work. If you carried a heavy 2 by 8 beam, you wouldn't pick it up in the middle, and then move to the middle of that point--but that's what you're doing, in effect, with a traditional strap attachment point. When people continue to do the same old thing, without even thinking about what they're doing, I scratch my head.

- IME, leather straps last pretty much forever. I have one that's at least 20 years old; the holes are stretched out, but that's what Grolsch is for.

So, they do stretch out, but you've jerry-rigged a solution to a problem that didn't need to exist in the first place.

- Nylon straps typically have leather ends/strap-pin holes, which stretch as much as on all-leather straps. NO, they'll stretch far less: 1. The nylon strap itself weighs less, and 2. the strap hangs at much less of a direct, downward angle.

[Doctor Jeff]

+1 on the Levy's. Beautiful tooling, soft leather, not too expensive. I have 2, one's about 20 years old--I don't wear a strap much, but just as good as the day it was bought.

If you want something a little different:

Slick Straps

[drbhrb]

[QUOTE=goldenwave77;749822]

- Nylon is usually slippery; leather straps usually have suede on the inward-facing side so that they don't slip; makes a big difference on neck-heavy instruments.

Try tying your guitar strap around the neck/headstock. The guitar will now have support at the two ends of the instrument...it is now perfectly balanced and not going anywhere. We don't need friction from the nap of the leather to hold the guitar from moving.

OR continue to use the traditional "solution" of the drilled in strap piece at the neck join: Now your neck join "balance point" is in the middle of the two mass points of the guitar---like a seesaw....no wonder people complain about "Neck Dive" and "Head Heavy" guitars: I can't change the fundamentals of physics, and how a lever, and balance points work. If you carried a heavy 2 by 8 beam, you wouldn't pick it up in the middle, and then move to the middle of that point--but that's what you're doing, in effect, with a traditional strap attachment point. When people continue to do the same old thing, without even thinking about what they're doing, I scratch my head.

- IME, leather straps last pretty much forever. I have one that's at least 20 years old; the holes are stretched out, but that's what Grolsch is for.

So, they do stretch out, but you've jerry-rigged a solution to a problem that didn't need to exist in the first place.

- Nylon straps typically have leather ends/strap-pin holes, which stretch as much as on all-leather straps. NO, they'll stretch far less: 1. The nylon strap itself weighs less, and 2. the strap hangs at much less of a direct, downward angle.

Strap button at the neck heel is much more comfortable and with a leather strap it doesn't slip. Should be using straplocks on any instrument you care about so the holes stretching out isn't an issue. Plus, nylon looks and feels cheap. You're going to go play a gig in a suit with a nylon strap? To each their own, but I see no benefits on nylon.

Another vote for Levy's. They are a little stiff at first but break in very nicely.

[goldenwave77]

Well, no one that I have ever observed, or seen, or talked to, has ever really noticed the strap that the guitarist is using.

BUT, if they did notice, then many of these leather straps look ridiculous in a jazz context...hand-tooled leather nonsense-- that belongs in a Western movie.

But feel free to weight yourself down with expensive, heavy devices that allow the instrument to slide around.

Seen much leather luggage (versus nylon) in the airport lately?! Might want to think about why that is...or not, as you prefer.

[John A.]

Well, no one that I have ever observed, or seen, or talked to, has ever really noticed the strap that the guitarist is using.

BUT, if they did notice, then many of these leather straps look ridiculous in a jazz context...hand-tooled leather nonsense-- that belongs in a Western movie.

But feel free to weight yourself down with expensive, heavy devices that allow the instrument to slide around.

Seen much leather luggage (versus nylon) in the airport lately?! Might want to think about why that is...or not, as you prefer.

We get it. You don't like leather straps.

John

[goldenwave77]

No, what really perturbs me is unthinking acceptance of what's always been done.

For all the great hoo-hah about how musicians are great individualists, the amount of unthinking conservatism in guitar equipment, and gear, is just astounding, esp. in the jazz world.

I think a good bit of this comes from insecurity...let's face it, the role of the guitar in jazz music, and its history, is not exactly front and center, and if the accoutrements of the jazz guitar discipline started to look too much like other popular uses of the guitar, it would raise certain issues, in all likelihood.

And let's not ignore the huge stake of manufacturers, retailers, etc. in obsessing over this equipment trivia...a lot less product to be pushed, and sold.

For example re: design conservatism, Jim Solaway tried to push the envelope a bit in his instrument designs. I've not played his guitars, but he seems an honorable and forthright fellow, and yet I wonder how many people truly listened to his guitars with an "open ear", or even gave them a chance to be listened to at all ?...a solid body guitar....with a long scale ?!....

People love Fender amps, and they became the de facto industry standard for tube designs. But a lot of old timers preferred Ampegs, and Everett Hull, loved jazz music, and some of his designs probably were better suited for jazz, but for a lot of people, "tube amp" means "Fender"...and sometimes for good reasons, but also out of laziness.

As for other great warhorses, I actually like Gibson electric archtops because it seems to me they actually filled a need that theretofore didn't exist in music...the need for a loud guitar that still had depth, and tone, but which would "stand up" in the mix... they copped a tonal formula that just works.

Lots of other stuff has come along...acoustic-y, half-electrified archtops...and I think, by and large, they are problematic....I don't think anyone has really solved the problem of amplifying acoustic instruments well ...instead we get boominess, or shrill tone (Piezo). Actually, if modeling gear is to ever become ascendant, it may do so in solving the problem of delivering real-time acoustic tone, but in a louder, and truer way. (The Gibson ES guitars sidestep this issue, and THAT is their genius....whole different ball of wax than their acoustic-y "brethren", and better for it, IMO.)

It's funny how much significance in this music is tied to technological change--the development of amplification (Charlie Christian and Bing Crosby), improvements in miking (which killed the banjo and allowed the rise of the guitar), and maybe the rise of the LP record (the whole development of "modern jazz"---would people be as awe-filled by a 3-minute version of "Love Supreme" ?!).

As for strap locks, and leather straps that are used in the traditional (and I believe, misplaced) location, well I have used them, but won't go back to them. But again, you're free to do whatever you like, for whatever reason you keep repeating to yourself. But repeating something doesn't make it true.

[Klatu]

I've tried parachute nylon straps. I don't like them.

[John A.]

No, what really perturbs me is unthinking acceptance of what's always been done.

For all the great hoo-hah about how musicians are great individualists, the amount of unthinking conservatism in guitar equipment, and gear, is just astounding, esp. in the jazz world.

I think a good bit of this comes from insecurity...let's face it, the role of the guitar in jazz music, and its history, is not exactly front and center, and if the accoutrements of the jazz guitar discipline started to look too much like other popular uses of the guitar, it would raise certain issues, in all likelihood.

And let's not ignore the huge stake of manufacturers, retailers, etc. in obsessing over this equipment trivia...a lot less product to be pushed, and sold.

For example re: design conservatism, Jim Solaway tried to push the envelope a bit in his instrument designs. I've not played his guitars, but he seems an honorable and forthright fellow, and yet I wonder how many people truly listened to his guitars with an "open ear", or even gave them a chance to be listened to at all ?...a solid body guitar....with a long scale ?!....

People love Fender amps, and they became the de facto industry standard for tube designs. But a lot of old timers preferred Ampegs, and Everett Hull, loved jazz music, and some of his designs probably were better suited for jazz, but for a lot of people, "tube amp" means "Fender"...and sometimes for good reasons, but also out of laziness.

As for other great warhorses, I actually like Gibson electric archtops because it seems to me they actually filled a need that theretofore didn't exist in music...the need for a loud guitar that still had depth, and tone, but which would "stand up" in the mix... they copped a tonal formula that just works.

Lots of other stuff has come along...acoustic-y, half-electrified archtops...and I think, by and large, they are problematic....I don't think anyone has really solved the problem of amplifying acoustic instruments well ...instead we get boominess, or shrill tone (Piezo). Actually, if modeling gear is to ever become ascendant, it may do so in solving the problem of delivering real-time acoustic tone, but in a louder, and truer way. (The Gibson ES guitars sidestep this issue, and THAT is their genius....whole different ball of wax than their acoustic-y "brethren", and better for it, IMO.)

It's funny how much significance in this music is tied to technological change--the development of amplification (Charlie Christian and Bing Crosby), improvements in miking (which killed the banjo and allowed the rise of the guitar), and maybe the rise of the LP record (the whole development of "modern jazz"---would people be as awe-filled by a 3-minute version of "Love Supreme" ?!).

As for strap locks, and leather straps that are used in the traditional (and I believe, misplaced) location, well I have used them, but won't go back to them. But again, you're free to do whatever you like, for whatever reason you keep repeating to yourself. But repeating something doesn't make it true.

OK, got it. You REALLY don't like leather straps, and you had too much coffee this morning.

John

[goldenwave77]

And you're completely unable to respond, substantively, so you resort to non sequiturs.

[John A.]

And you're completely unable to respond, substantively, so you resort to non sequiturs.

My first response to this thread was entirely substantive, citing pluses and minuses of both flavors of straps. You disagreed, hyperbolically. I expressed "ok, let's agree to disagree" in the form of snark. You then went off on a tangent about everything you think is wrong with the universe. I'm sorry, who is unable to respond substantively and on-topic? It could be that one of my many glaring cognitive deficiencies is preventing me from figuring that out. I have no doubt you will help me address that via an entirely proportionate and temperate comment ...

John

[ptchristopher3]

I like leather straps. I would not want a nylon one for a pile of aesthetic reasons.

I go through an airport with nylon (or similar synth), and my car has them. I do not strap on a guitar in a pure utility way.

Like them leather straps.

Some do not.

[Top of the Arch!]

Someone has too much free time on their hands...... Bob

[sgosnell]

I have a Franklin leather strap that I like a lot. If it stretches a little over the years, so what. I've stretched, too. I use Schaller straplocks, and they eliminate any problems that could arise with the strap eye stretching. They also let me use only one strap, and switch between guitars very quickly, at least as quickly as using different straps on different guitars. I have some nylong straps, and I don't like them at all. Maladjustment is too easy, and they just feel flimsy. I do notice straps used by players sometimes, depending on the strap. There are some really gaudy ones out there.

[goldenwave77]

My first response to this thread was entirely substantive, citing pluses and minuses of both flavors of straps. You disagreed, hyperbolically.
John

You did offer a bunch of reasons, but most don't hold up. That was post #8, and none of my contentions were addressed. I gave reasons, not hyperbole.

And it seemed to me, that some of your "reasons"---head heaviness and the like, spring from people doing exactly what has always done, i.e., get a guitar, see an end pin on it, and attach a strap to it, thinking this is mandatory, or something. They then complain about "neck diving" and the like.


(I think this is absolutely ridiculous, but maybe I shouldn't complain: There might be a decent guitar out there that someone will sell cheap because of "neck heaviness".)Leather does weigh more than nylon---fact. Don't carry leather briefcases anymore or use leather suitcases, and this is widespread.

Want to pay $35 a pop, and more, for this leather strap nonsense? Feel free, but I'd rather tie an $8 nylon strap around my guitar neck....I own more guitars than I need (7 or so), and I just leave them on, tied securely. The one time I almost suffered disaster with a guitar was when I had a neck join, strap lock button loosen...a "kick save and a beauty" saved a Guild x500 from a dropkick-like impact. The nylon straps are thin, and fit easily into the case, as well.

When you tie a guitar onto a strap button in its middle, a good part of the weight is outside the balance point...seesaw like, and this is unstable. If you don't like it, take it up with the Creator, or maybe Archimedes, of long-lever fame.

I see people with guitars sliding around with this "neck join, strap button" business, or what's worse, playing without a strap. ....Boy, that will do a lot for your consistency of setup, and posture. (Maybe I'll try changing the grip size on my golf clubs between rounds so that I can ensure I'm never repeating anything twice.)

Leather has particular virtues like its ability to mold itself and "breathe" when worn for long periods (a pair of boots, or a saddle), but guitar straps ? Just don't see it.

[GNAPPI]

" IME, leather straps last pretty much forever. I have one that's at least 20 years old; the holes are stretched out, but that's what Grolsch is for."

"So, they do stretch out, but you've jerry-rigged a solution to a problem that didn't need to exist in the first place."

"- Nylon straps typically have leather ends/strap-pin holes, which stretch as much as on all-leather straps."

" NO, they'll stretch far less: 1. The nylon strap itself weighs less, and 2. the strap hangs at much less of a direct, downward angle. "

Leather strap holes that stretch can be sewn closed onto the strap button or a new hole can be cut. I had a leather strap for over 40 years it went with a stolen git. :-(

Nylon belongs on legs, and covering bare bottoms :-) I am unanimous in that opinion :-)

Jeez take a breath :-)

[goldenwave77]

On one level, I truly don't care that people love their leather straps, or not.

But part of this forum (in a good way), is to try not to perpetuate inaccuracy, and nonsense. So when people cite all sorts of spurious reasons for various products, it is beneficial to point out "it ain't necessarily so...". Otherwise, it is in danger of just becoming another marketing and product flogging outlet.

My reasons were stated, and people can agree/disagree, as they please.

I have nothing more to add at this point, and people are free to draw their own conclusions.

[ptchristopher3]

What about a paper-in-oil straps?

Amazing when attached with "50's buttoning".

[neatomic]

real guitarists don't need no stinkin' straps



haha

i love levys

cheers