Looking for lightweight tube amp! Princeton alternative.

[jzjazz]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for a small, portable tube-combo.

- I'm playing an Aria PE-180 (laminate L5-kind from the 70s)
- Right now I have a Henriksen JazzAmp 110 (the older one) and I'm having the possibility to play regularly a Mambo 10" and a Polytone. I like all of these - the Polytone probably most. But after visiting a local music store and trying the Princeton 65RI (15W) I'm just in love with the tube sound. Please don't talk me out of it - I will still keep the Henriksen, but I need something with more of that tuby-thing which these transistors lack
- I'm playing in a guitar duo and a quartet with tenor sax and rhythm section. Drummer isn't super-loud, but isn't also very quiet
- I'm after a clean sound, a bit of breaking up wouldn't harm I guess but I have no experience. We're playing jazz-jazz. Mainstream mostly, no funky, rock or blues.
- Please consider that I'm in Europe - there are hardly any Vintage Princetons available here, other vintage Fenders show up from time to time

I've gone through all the topics here on this forum twice and don't know what to do!
- Amp need to be light. I'm used to the 9kg Henriksen, I know that's not possible. But the 15kg Polytone should be the limit. 19-20 kg and more is no option.
- It should be loud enough - according to this forum the princeton probably wouldn't be. Maybe a modified one or a vintage one, but he RI is just too weak
- The deluxe reverb seems OK with its 22W, but weights about 20 kg
- So I guess I have to give up Fender?
- Thinking about Rivera - there is a Clubster 25W version available locally for good money, will play it in a couple days. 13kg. If not enough power the 45W should do it with ease (but +4kg), also one available locally (Pubster 45). Nor sure about the sound - will check
- Any other thoughs?

Thanks!

[David B]

Fender '65 Princeton Reverb - 15.7kg
Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb - 20kg

Both amps will do what you want, are readily available in Europe, and are inside your 20kg weight limit. I have the DRRI. My friend Christian (on here as christianm77) has the PRRI.

Stick a more efficient speaker in one of these amps (I have the 12" Eminence Cannabis Rex; Christian has the 10" Eminence Lil Bud) and there's plenty of headroom to hang in a straight ahead jazz setting.

There's some footage of Christian playing his PRRI in a trio setting here: Badly shot wonky footage of my trio

If I may drop a name, Peter Bernstein borrowed my DRRI for a trio date a couple months ago and played without a the need for a PA. Sounded great and that trio got pretty loud.

[jzjazz]

Fender '65 Princeton Reverb - 15.7kg
Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb - 20kg

Speaker switch is pretty easily done, so that's a good idea with the Princeton. Deluxe is way beyond what I plan to carry around I wrote that 19-20kg is NO option

Waiting for more inputs from you guys - new Princeton with speaker-swap is 1300-1400E, the Clubster is available for 500E so I'm gonna give it a try anyway. Don't see any decend-priced princetones in Europoe right now - starting at 1100 + shipping.

[jzjazz]

Peter Bernstein borrowed my DRRI for a trio date ....

I'd pay Mr Bernstein to play any of my gear

[John A.]

Maybe check out a Fender Blues Jr. It's a little lighter than a PR, about the same volume level, somewhat different tone (more tweed-like clean, plus an OD channel), cheaper, widely available.

John.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[David B]

Keep your eye on eBay UK. In the UK, a number of '65 Princetons have sold recently for very fair prices: £477.56 (sold today!); £510 (21/11/16); £660 (10/02/17)

[jzjazz]

Keep your eye on eBay UK. In the UK, a number of '65 Princetons have sold recently for very fair prices: £477.56 (sold today!); £510 (21/11/16); £660 (10/02/17)

Very good prices! And good idea, thanks!

[DanielleOM]

Ever look at Laney amps? I am in the USA and the small local shop sells them. It certainly sounded OK at a workshop I went to with Sheryl Bailey playing her McCurdy guitar.

[Herbie]

Two words for You: Bluetone Black Prince (uups, there is three!):

Bluetone >> Black Prince Reverb

13-14kg, not bad! And a mid pot unlike most of the Princetones or Princetone clones.

Tube amps have a livelier sound than any other amp, Your ears have it just right!

[andyb]

I have a Cornell Romany 12, it sounds amazing. I much prefer it to the mambo 10 that I had before. They are hand wired in the UK. And only 13kg.

10 watt may not sound much, and perhaps not enough for your needs, but it does stay clean. Unless you dial the output down it has 4 settings.
Power A-B-C-D
A - 10 watts
B - 1.5 watts
C - 0.25 watt
D - 0.05 watt

http://www.dcdevelopments.com/products.html
Cornell Romany 12

[jzjazz]

Thanks guys! I have played a tube laney in the past, but it was nothing like the princeton. Maybe the time between listening to those two is a major factor :-) But you don't see to many people recomending or playing Laney for a jazz box...

Bluetone looks great and I guess it sounds so. But is more expensive than a new Princeton, so I'd rather go for the "original" (better re-sale value). Cornell Romany is interesting but it would probably end up being too quiet AND I have no chance to play it before buying. So I was rather expecting tips such as the Blues Junior, which are widely spread.

To me a blues junior is rather something that should break up pretty early and give you that nice crunch (which I'm not looking for), or am I wrong? I've done a 1 to 1, 30-40 minute comparision between the Princeton RI 65vs68 and the second one was muddy and was breaking up pretty early, that's what I imagine about the blues junior (since the 68 is on the bluesy side), but I might be wrong?

Actually David B made me hope for a princeton at a good price, so that's probably gonna be it. Since I LOVED the sound in the music store of that 65. It was the blue one - so I guess it had the 12" speaker, maybe that was part of the sound...

[Little Jay]

I think you should try out the Award Session BluesBaby 22 or 45. Okay, no tubes inside, but it nails the Princton (Black/Silverface) Tube Sound (which is indeed a rather different type of sound than Henriksen or Polytone). Huh? Non-tube amp for tube sounds? Yes. Don't be put off by the absence of tubes (or by the many gain/OD-oriented demos on youtube). Biggest plus: even lighter than a Princeton and it's not a modelling amp (although opinions differ at the forum, but I can't get modelling amps to sound and behave the way I can with a tube amp or my BluesBaby).

[jads57]

Try a Jensen Tornado 10"Neo replacement along w/ upgraded tubes. The one I heard sounded 2x's louder next to a stock version.

[John A.]

Thanks guys! I have played a tube laney in the past, but it was nothing like the princeton. Maybe the time between listening to those two is a major factor :-) But you don't see to many people recomending or playing Laney for a jazz box...

Bluetone looks great and I guess it sounds so. But is more expensive than a new Princeton, so I'd rather go for the "original" (better re-sale value). Cornell Romany is interesting but it would probably end up being too quiet AND I have no chance to play it before buying. So I was rather expecting tips such as the Blues Junior, which are widely spread.

To me a blues junior is rather something that should break up pretty early and give you that nice crunch (which I'm not looking for), or am I wrong? I've done a 1 to 1, 30-40 minute comparision between the Princeton RI 65vs68 and the second one was muddy and was breaking up pretty early, that's what I imagine about the blues junior (since the 68 is on the bluesy side), but I might be wrong?

Actually David B made me hope for a princeton at a good price, so that's probably gonna be it. Since I LOVED the sound in the music store of that 65. It was the blue one - so I guess it had the 12" speaker, maybe that was part of the sound...

The 65 and 68 PRs are different amps. Th "68" is not actuallt a reissue of a real silverface PR. It's Fender's idea of what a SF PR is like after being heavily modified. The Blues Jr is just a different amp circuit altogether (though there's tonal overlap among all these amps). The ones I've played can have similar clean headroom to a PR, but can also be set to distort earlier with the fat switch and MV.

John

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[Little Jay]

It's Fender's idea of what a SF PR is like after being heavily modified.

Well, heavily..... perhaps a slightly higher value resistor for the negative feedback and two different caps in the tonestack. Maybe a different mids resistor too. $3 in parts :-)

(Sorry if I'm being a pain.....)

[John A.]

Well, heavily..... perhaps a slightly higher value resistor for the negative feedback and two different caps in the tonestack. Maybe a different mids resistor too. $3 in parts :-)

(Sorry if I'm being a pain.....)

Ok, "modded" then. People probably give more weight than deserved to what are actually minor differences among all of these items. Bottom line, a "real" PR a '65 reissue, a '68 custom, and a DR are all more similar than they are different. Even a Blues Jr, despite the difference in tube types, control layout, and features, has a lot of overlap. If I were in the OP's shoes (and I was a few years ago), I would be open to any of these and would jump on the best deal that came my way.

John

[tonyp145]

I wouldn't think the 68 PRRI would be what the OP is looking for, don't know all the tech specs, but Fender says they were going for more of a tweed Bassman kind of a sound, so earlier breakup than the 65. Personally I think the 65 with a speaker upgrade is what you want. It's really hard to find a light weight tube amp with a lot of clean headroom -- I know, I've looked. My experience with Rivera is they sound spectacular, until you try to pick them up. Even the small Rivera's are a load, I assume because they use heavy transformers.

I use a Quilter transistor amp and I think it's probably a bit more versatile than the ones you have. You can definitely dial in a some tube-like compression and warmth. I have the MicroPro but I bet you would like the Aviator -- open back and a bit less complicated to dial in. I'm interested in the 2-10" version myself. But I understand you want a tube amp. Good luck with your search, I suspect you might have to compromise on weight to get the sound you're looking for.

[jzjazz]

I wouldn't think the 68 PRRI would be what the OP is looking for...

Again - I tested both with the same guitar and conditions. The 68 - apart from its earlier breakup - is pretty dark and muddy. Huge difference to me. Still - I would probably like it if the 65 wasn't so much more what I am looking for. So minor differences are one thing, but major sound differences are another. Of course if someone has the knowledge, he could turn pretty easily one into the other, but that's not for me

And yes - it has to be tube this time

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I'm trying to think of a European tube amp maker that has something in a jazz model (Marshall and Laney don't count) and I'm coming up blank.

[Hammertone]

Two excellent, small, lightweight, versatile, high-quality amps, made in Holland.
I have used both for jazz and they both perform extremely well:

Koch Studiotone 1x12" combo - weight 17.5 kg
2-channel amp w/20 watts of Class A power.
Koch Studiotone 20 combo - Koch Amps

Koch Jupiter 45 1x12" combo - weight 16.7 kg
2-channel amp w/45 watts of SS power, w/tube preamp.
Koch Jupiter 45 combo - Koch Amps

[deselby]

Julian Lage is using a Champ. Might be underpowered if you want clean clarity at higher volume.

[Alter]

I was exactly in the same situation as the OP a few years back. Had the henriksen (still do) and a couple of other ss amps, but love tube amps. If you don 't mind some breakup and aren't after a super clean twin reverb type of sound, maybe you can try the small fenders, the Blues Junior (i have one and i like it) and the Princeton reverb. Many gigging jazz players use the deluxe reverb also for a bit of more clean headroom. Bear in mind that modding them with a more efficient speaker makes them a bit more usable for jazz sounds

I ended up getting an Alessandro Rottweiler, 40 watts 1x12 combo, all tube, 6L6 tubes, 15 kilos. I trusted a friend and ordered it overseas without hearing it, the reason being i couldn't find anything remotely that light with 40 watts. The amp is close enough to a fender sound, can play anything, can do jazz to rock and all in between, its a great amp. Wasn't cheap but if you are considering victoria amps you in the ballpark price wise. Personally, being a huge fender amp fan myself i prefer the fender amps, but i end up never using them on full band gigs, cause of the weight..

Another solution is to cut an amp into a head and carry a 1x12 cabinet, making an array of tube amps easier to handle..

[Little Jay]

Forum member Kris plays on Polish made amps that sound really good to me (very Fenderish), might be eorth trying out:

MV3H jazz tube heads-new design 2016

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...5&share_type=t

(Sorry I can only copy the tapatalk-link, hope that works)

**another link:

[Sunfist]

I am using a Fender Super Champ X2. It is a 15watt tube amp with some modeling and effects built in if you want to use them, but they can also be disabled if you want a pure clean tone. I bought it as I have a bad back and this was one of the lightest Fender tube amps I could find and like you I had to have a tube amp, period. I love this amp, it has a very nice clean tone and I usually play with just a touch of reverb and maybe a bit of chorus too. Point being it is a very nice small tube amp. It also has a line out so you can connect to a larger cabinet if you need more sound for a larger venue.

[Little Jay]

Here's the website of the Polish amp guy, Elmuz: Nagłośnienie i Oświetlenie Estradowe, Głośniki Beyma - Sklep Internetowy

In Polish unfortunately. Maybe Kris can help out, he seemed to have some kind of endorsement?