Gibson ES-175 Tailpieces

[Socraticaster]

Hello:

My mid-60's es175 has an after-market zigzag tailpiece. I know in the grand scheme of things that this shouldn't bug me, but it does. I hate how inaccurate of a reproduction it is. Of course, finding an original one is next to impossible - IF you can afford it.

However, I think I may have found either an original 60's Gibson tailpiece, or at the very least, a very accurate Japanese reproduction from the 70s - and for less than $50! I haven't bought it yet, and before I do, I was wondering if I could ask a big favour from someone who has an original zigzag tailpiece.

In the picture posted below, could someone give me the actual measurements (mm or inches) of the lengths of lines A, B, and C from your actual tailpiece? I greatly appreciate the help.

Thanks in advance.

[Ray175]

on my 1961 I have

A=3.5mm
B=18mm
C=4mm

[Socraticaster]

Thanks so much. That was a great help. I love this forum.

[stoneground]

Just for information, the tailpiece I fitted to my 165 seems to have the right dimensions. Not cheap but high quality. A=3.5 B=18 C=4.0 (same as the '61 mentioned by Ray175). The website currently says "available soon". I had to wait a couple of weeks if I remember correctly.

Gibson ES-175 Zig Zag Tailpiece

[Ray175]

The key factor to focus on - beyond being a good replica visually - is the quality of soldering both on the zigzags and the hinge. Friends have been disappointed over the years when theirs fell apart.......

[Socraticaster]

That's a big difference. On my repro. tailpiece - from WD Music - the measurements are way off:

A = 8mm
B = 21mm
C = 11mm

I looked into getting the tailpiece from Crazyparts, but I sent an email asking when the tailpieces might be back in stock and they said that the supplier "cannot say." Hopefully the one I found on eBay will work out.

-T

[sgosnell]

FWIW, the above measurements are close to those on my Epi 175. I get 3.3, 18, & 4.6 mm. I would expect some variance, and a fraction of a millimeter should be within tolerance for something like this.

[Jabberwocky]

I see them on the Japanese Tokai FAxxx and Archtop Tribute guitars. I don't know where they get them but they are good. Perhaps an email to Masaki Nishimura-san of Walkin Japan may prove beneficial.

[lawson-stone]

My 1959 VOS ES175 has:

A:3.38mm
B: 17.6 mm
C: 3.8 mm

My Epiphone ES175 Premium has:

A: 3.7mm
B: 18.5 mm
C: 5.17 mm

[stoneground]

The key factor to focus on - beyond being a good replica visually - is the quality of soldering both on the zigzags and the hinge. Friends have been disappointed over the years when theirs fell apart.......

I would agree with this. Another consideration is the metal that the tailpiece is actually made of. I believe the originals and the Crazyparts item are nickel plated brass whereas some of the imitations are probably some pot metal under the plating. A magnet might help with diagnostics here. I noticed that the original cheap 165 tailpiece was strongly magnetic probably indicating some ferrous pot metal whereas the Crazyparts one was hardly magnetic at all, probably just the nickel plating being so.
I should perhaps have pointed out that the Crazyparts tailpiece is a lot more expensive now than when I bought mine a year or so ago. 169 euros is a lot of money and I'm not sure I would stretch to that these days. It is probably still cheaper than a genuine vintage item however and has the advantage of being new.

[Socraticaster]

I ordered the tailpiece and it came in the mail today. It seems to be quite good - at least as far as I can tell. It has a nice weight to it, and appears well made. It's chrome, not nickel, which is exactly what I need for my '66 es175. Nickel would not have been correct, so the crazyparts tailpiece wouldn't have worked even if it was available.

Thanks for all of your help and information everyone. Here are the relevant dimensions, and a couple of pics.

A = 3.8
B = 18
C = 4.2

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[sgosnell]

Pot metal is not magnetic. Iron has a much higher melting point than zinc and the other nonferrous metals generally used, so it's avoided if possible. If something is strongly attracted by a magnet, it's likely steel. The tailpiece on my Epi ES175 is magnetic, and I think that's a good thing. Brass is not nearly as strong as steel.

[lawson-stone]

I ordered the tailpiece and it came in the mail today. It seems to be quite good - at least as far as I can tell. It has a nice weight to it, and appears well made. It's chrome, not nickel, which is exactly what I need for my '66 es175. Nickel would not have been correct, so the crazyparts tailpiece wouldn't have worked even if it was available.

Thanks for all of your help and information everyone. Here are the relevant dimensions, and a couple of pics.

A = 3.8
B = 18
C = 4.2

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SaveSave

Was it a private vendor with only one to sell? Might there be others?

[Socraticaster]

There was only the one to sell, I'm afraid.

[stoneground]

Pot metal is not magnetic. Iron has a much higher melting point than zinc and the other nonferrous metals generally used, so it's avoided if possible. If something is strongly attracted by a magnet, it's likely steel. The tailpiece on my Epi ES175 is magnetic, and I think that's a good thing. Brass is not nearly as strong as steel.

I stand corrected, I thought that pot metal could contain almost anything including ferrous materials. Whatever the cheap 165 tailpiece was made of, it was magnetic. They don't have a reputation for durability so perhaps they are not steel either.

[sgosnell]

Pot metal can contain ferrous metals, but it's rare. The melting point is much higher for ferrous metals, making it difficult to get an acceptable alloy. Pot metal is generally just made from whatever scrap metals are easily available, but it's more economical to sort out the ferrous metals with magnets and sell or use those separately. And if you're pouring stuff for sale using pot metal, economics are important.

[Socraticaster]

I got the guitar back a few days ago. I had Dan Shinn at Lay's Guitar Shop in Akron do the work. He replaced the tailpiece, replaced the tune-o-matic bridge with a period-correct Gibson rosewood bridge, and did a general set-up. It plays great now. Dan believes the tailpiece to be an original factory Gibson part. If so, that's cool. Here's a pic of me picking up the guitar from Dan. On the wall behind me are 3 1950's Les Paul sunburst conversions.

[Jx30510]

Your Es175 looks great.
A general qurestion, does the tailpiece influence the sound? Or is it just comestic?

[Socraticaster]

For me, just cosmetic. I have no problem with an aftermarket, non-vintage part. But I do have a problem with aftermarket parts that are poor reproductions of the original.

[pubylakeg]

I see them on the Japanese Tokai FAxxx and Archtop Tribute guitars. I don't know where they get them but they are good. Perhaps an email to Masaki Nishimura-san of Walkin Japan may prove beneficial.

Some of the walkin inventory pages give fuller descriptions of the Archtop Tribute models spec than others. Some of them mention that the tailpieces are Montreux Time Machine tailpieces. (Can't state for certain if this would apply to the whole range of AT guitars though).

Products | Montreux

[Socraticaster]

Those Walkin tailpieces do NOT look authentic - way too much spacing between the center piece and the bent side rods. That's what I had on the guitar originally (the original Gibson factory tailpiece was long gone by the time I got the guitar), and once you know what a real tailpiece looks like, the fake ones just don't cut it - to my eye, they look cheap, somehow. But maybe I'm just being a snob. Anyway, here's the guitar with the original (non-original, aftermarket) tailpiece that came with the guitar when I bought it 18 months ago. You can see how the spacing is all wrong:

[pubylakeg]

Those Walkin tailpieces do NOT look authentic - way too much spacing between the center piece and the bent side rods. That's what I had on the guitar originally (the original Gibson factory tailpiece was long gone by the time I got the guitar), and once you know what a real tailpiece looks like, the fake ones just don't cut it - to my eye, they look cheap, somehow. But maybe I'm just being a snob. Anyway, here's the guitar with the original (non-original, aftermarket) tailpiece that came with the guitar when I bought it 18 months ago. You can see how the spacing is all wrong:

Very informative post, thanks for the info.
Es-175 looks wonderful, btw,

[floatingpickup]

Those Walkin tailpieces do NOT look authentic - way too much spacing between the center piece and the bent side rods. That's what I had on the guitar originally (the original Gibson factory tailpiece was long gone by the time I got the guitar), and once you know what a real tailpiece looks like, the fake ones just don't cut it - to my eye, they look cheap, somehow. But maybe I'm just being a snob. Anyway, here's the guitar with the original (non-original, aftermarket) tailpiece that came with the guitar when I bought it 18 months ago. You can see how the spacing is all wrong:

I agree...those tailpieces with the extra space just do not look right to me. You were lucky to get a correct one. I would not have been happy with the fake one that was on it either. The guitar looks terrific now.
Keith

[lawson-stone]

I ordered the tailpiece and it came in the mail today. It seems to be quite good - at least as far as I can tell. It has a nice weight to it, and appears well made. It's chrome, not nickel, which is exactly what I need for my '66 es175. Nickel would not have been correct, so the crazyparts tailpiece wouldn't have worked even if it was available.

Thanks for all of your help and information everyone. Here are the relevant dimensions, and a couple of pics.

A = 3.8
B = 18
C = 4.2

SaveSave
SaveSave

What was the source for your new ES175 zigzag tailpiece?

[Socraticaster]

It was just some random seller on eBay. I checked and he doesn't have more

-Travis