Tube vs Solid State Guitar Amps

**sgosnell** · 02-09-2017, 02:57 PM

The title should be "The physics of why valve amps sound different". "Better" is certainly a subjective term, and research should be objective. I prefer solid state also, because I prefer accurate reproduction of the instrument, and tubes are less accurate. For those who prefer the tube sound, tubes are readily available, as are SS amps for those who prefer them. Many things go into the equation, and thus there are many different amps available, even from the same manufacturers. If everyone had the same tastes, there would only be a couple of amp models available. Thankfully, there are many tastes, and thus many amps. You vote with your checkbook (or plastic

).

**BFrench** · 02-09-2017, 03:30 PM

I'm 65 yrs old and can't count the different Fender tube amps I've owned over the years and still have a 65 Super that I love. I just ordered my first ever SS amp, the Boss Katana 100w 1/12...it'll be here tomorrow, we'll see then.

**2bornot2bop** · 02-09-2017, 07:35 PM

The majority of audiophiles know tubes "sound better" than SS. The suggestion that "tube amps don't do clean" is mind-boggling. But hey, all sound is subjective to the listener.

**Skip Ellis** · 02-09-2017, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

The majority of audiophiles know tubes "sound better" than SS. The suggestion that "tube amps don't do clean" is mind-boggling. But hey, all sound is subjective to the listener.

The majority of audiophiles may THINK that tubes sound better but they may be wrong - there's just no way to prove one way or the other. We'll all just continue to use what we like and have pity on the ones who don't agree with us.

Another thought: would a SS amp recorded digitally and played through an audiophile's tube system sound like a tube amp or a SS amp? What if the performer using the SS amp wanted his music to sound like it did live - should he put a disclaimer on the CD packaging that it should only be played back on SS equipment or he wouldn't guarantee the enjoyability of the performance? For me, I have a guitar made out of 'x' wood with 'x' pickups and strung with 'x' strings, strummed with an 'x' brand of pick - I don't want the amplifier to color it in any way and I don't want it to distort and sound like the speakers are blown.

**FuseHead** · 02-09-2017, 09:18 PM

Using SS now... Always used tube Boogies in the past. I sure miss my boogie amps. I think the amp design makes the most difference, not really tube -vs- ss

I mean Mesa engineering knows how to build killer amps period.

**helios** · 02-09-2017, 10:48 PM

"Fragile harmonics survive in a vacuum tube........they are squashed in a solid state crystal lattice"...

I love Mr. Dumble's brief organic discussion on the topic!

**Cunamara** · 02-09-2017, 11:27 PM

And again the question isn't "which is better," just that they are different and both are legitimate and useful tools.

This thread got me to get out my Clarus 2r/RE 12" and appreciate what it offers- clean, balanced, well defined notes. Different than my 5E3, which I also really like, but no worse. I did find the Clarus to be much warmer than I remembered.

**add4** · 02-10-2017, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by FuseHead

Using SS now... Always used tube Boogies in the past. I sure miss my boogie amps. I think the amp design makes the most difference, not really tube -vs- ss

I mean Mesa engineering knows how to build killer amps period.

And for the price of a boogie you get killer parts at every stage. Killer design and good everything... magically it sounds great.

Cheap parts and less work in the design ... it sounds cheap.

That happens to ss or tube amps.

Surprisingly, the most common opinion about ss vs tube is so strong that we only talk of the tube amps that sound great and of the ss amps that sound terrible. Never the opposite.
For a change, we should start a debate about killer ss amps and crappy tube amps. Those exist too.

In the end, the recipe to get a situation like this always the same: use a generic term: "sound good" to describe a complex system. and to measure it, you use completely subjective criterias that do not cover "being good" at all but a small part of it, in a specific situation. If it can't be measured you get extra points. If you use this recipe, the debate will never end. Indeed by essence the question is so complex that it can't be done scientifically since a strict evaluation automatically neglects the rest of the system.
Example?
ask a hammer to swim. You see ? All hammers sucks. They can't swim. fishes on the other hand they swim all day long. They're the best.
Sounds familiar? some politicians excel at using these kind of comparisons to make their points these days.

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

**jorgemg1984** · 02-10-2017, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

And again the question isn't "which is better," just that they are different and both are legitimate and useful tools.

This thread got me to get out my Clarus 2r/RE 12" and appreciate what it offers- clean, balanced, well defined notes. Different than my 5E3, which I also really like, but no worse. I did find the Clarus to be much warmer than I remembered.

That's not a good or fair comparison. The main difference between a Clarus and a 5E3 is NOT tubes/ss. You're comparing apples to oranges, really. The Clarus is basically a high headroom PA trough a ported bass cab, the 5E3 is a tweed preamp designed to overdriven, trough an open back cab with a guitar speaker. Use the Clarus trough the 5E3 cab paired with a Tweed preamp pedal, they will sound much closer than you imagine.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 02-10-2017, 12:15 PM

I have both and like both for what they are. I do see tube lovers saying things like "I tried one cheap modeling amp in the '90s and didn't like it, so all modeling amps suck".

**mr. beaumont** · 02-10-2017, 12:20 PM

I really like having both...the amps I own I own because they get a particular sound.

I will say my polytone with a Fender voiced preamp (I use a Tech 21 "blonde") does a pretty darn good tube amp impersonation, though.

**Skip Ellis** · 02-10-2017, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

That's not a good or fair comparison. The main difference between a Clarus and a 5E3 is NOT tubes/ss. You're comparing apples to oranges, really. The Clarus is basically a high headroom PA trough a ported bass cab, the 5E3 is a tweed preamp designed to overdriven, trough an open back cab with a guitar speaker. Use the Clarus trough the 5E3 cab paired with a Tweed preamp pedal, they will sound much closer than you imagine.

I believe the 5E3 refers to some Fender circuit and I don't believe that it was originally designed to break up and distort. In those days, if an amp distorted, you bought a more powerful amp that wouldn't. Nobody back then played that loud. The whole 'overdrive' break up thing started when players started emulating old time blues players who used crummy equipment and couldn't afford to replace blown speakers. I think I read one time that the first intentional use of 'fuzz' on a recording was the bass player on Marty Robbins' "Don't Worry 'Bout Me" having a blown speaker and the producer liking the sound and leaving it in.

By all means, if a player wants to buy a $3000 Les Paul and then run it through some sort of distortion device to make it sound like crap, go right ahead. Everybody to his/her own taste....I happen to like clean but everybody doesn't. I'm also of the opinion that distortion can cover up a lot of bad playing - maybe that's why it's used so much.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-10-2017, 12:26 PM

Ever hear some of those Django sides from the 50's, where's he's got a pickup on his SelMac and he's plugged in to a small amp?

DAMN! That's some "good distortion" if ya ask me.

I love some of those 50's recordings of Burrell, Grant Green, a few others where that amp is right on the edge...

**BFrench** · 02-10-2017, 12:29 PM

I like Barney Kessel but I also like Captain Beefheart and Bach and The Hag and never once thought about comparing them. Seriously you can like different things without putting the other down.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 02-10-2017, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

I believe the 5E3 refers to some Fender circuit and I don't believe that it was originally designed to break up and distort. In those days, if an amp distorted, you bought a more powerful amp that wouldn't. Nobody back then played that loud. The whole 'overdrive' break up thing started when players started emulating old time blues players who used crummy equipment and couldn't afford to replace blown speakers. I think I read one time that the first intentional use of 'fuzz' on a recording was the bass player on Marty Robbins' "Don't Worry 'Bout Me" having a blown speaker and the producer liking the sound and leaving it in.

By all means, if a player wants to buy a $3000 Les Paul and then run it through some sort of distortion device to make it sound like crap, go right ahead. Everybody to his/her own taste....I happen to like clean but everybody doesn't. I'm also of the opinion that distortion can cover up a lot of bad playing - maybe that's why it's used so much.

5E3 = Tweed Deluxe.

The 5 is for the decade (1950's).
The E is for the version of the model (starting with A, B, C...). E is the narrow panel Deluxe, 1955-60.
The 3 is for the model. 1=Champ, 2=Princeton, 3=Deluxe, etc...

That they weren't designed to "sound" like the way that Tweed lovers push these amps to sound is an fruitful accident. If you don't like them that's fine, I don't like kiwis. If you do like them...

**GNAPPI** · 02-10-2017, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

By all means, if a player wants to buy a $3000 Les Paul and then run it through some sort of distortion device to make it sound like crap, go right ahead. Everybody to his/her own taste....I happen to like clean but everybody doesn't. I'm also of the opinion that distortion can cover up a lot of bad playing - maybe that's why it's used so much.

Haaa... I LOVE it!!! The absolutely unbelievably remarkable thing about it is they THEN go on to replace pups, pots and actually HEAR an "improvement"

I was in a store a while back and a cat was whizzing through the neck and his GF stepped on the selector foot switch, he sounded so shitty he put the git down red faced :-)

**Cavalier** · 02-10-2017, 02:27 PM

I'm in the use both camp too and can hear the differences but value them. Running stereo with tube one side and SS the other takes care of even and odd order harmonics! The neat thing about rotating what you practice with is it makes you listen to what you are doing with fresh ears.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 02-10-2017, 02:42 PM

Distortion is a color on my palette. Disliking and eschewing a sound on general principle is, to me, like saying, "Look, I'm just not going to use red in this painting, and I don't care what you say."

I've owned plenty of amps both tube and SS. I tend to prefer tube amps, but I've played and owned some damned good SS/hybrid amps.