Gibson L-5 and Epiphone Broadway Elistist

**plasticpigeon** · 01-26-2017, 07:17 AM

I'm lucky enough to own both these guitars despite my limited playing abilities. I always wanted an L-5, I suppose I've bought into the legend. My idols played L-5s, and they are the original jazz guitar, and perhaps the most elegant. I'm not surprised the design has hardly changed for 80 years. I bought the epiphone as it was for sale near me, in lovely condition, and I thought that was the closest to owning an L-5 as I would get as they are not very plentiful in the UK. Then this L-5 came up for sale, and I deliberated for months about whether I should buy it or not. I started saving, and amazingly it was still for sale by the time I had saved enough, and it was in such wonderful condition I couldn't resist. I always intended to sell the Epi but I can't bring myself to do it, such is the way with these things. Here are some pics.
Attachment 39215 Gibson L-5 and Epiphone Broadway Elistist-img_0859-jpg

Gibson L-5 and Epiphone Broadway Elistist-img_0859-jpg

Gibson L-5 and Epiphone Broadway Elistist-img_0856-jpg

**Jabberwocky** · 01-26-2017, 07:23 AM

They make a lovely pair and my wish is for you to be able to afford keep them together for as long as you want.

**TOMMO** · 01-26-2017, 07:26 AM

What jabberwocky said: +1!

**Little Jay** · 01-26-2017, 07:58 AM

Cool! Nice to see that Epiphone got the body and f-holes right on this one, while there ES-335 and ES-175 copies have subtle differences in body shape, shape and position of the f-holes, cut-away and such.

And now for the big question: how do they compare? What does the one have that the other lack, what are their strengths? Which one is the better guitar for you?

**Klatu** · 01-26-2017, 07:59 AM

Having the rare opportunity to compare them side by side for an extended period of time, how would compare the guitars?

**feet** · 01-26-2017, 12:14 PM

you should put a floyd rose on the l5 so they'll be different

very curious to see how they compare. even stock an elitist can be quite formidable.

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Cool! Nice to see that Epiphone got the body and f-holes right on this one, while there ES-335 and ES-175 copies have subtle differences in body shape, shape and position of the f-holes, cut-away and such.

And now for the big question: how do they compare? What does the one have that the other lack, what are their strengths? Which one is the better guitar for you?

What differences with the ES175 are there. I have the Epi 175, the Gibson, and an ES165. The measurements and observations I've made seem to make the Epiphone a match in size.

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 12:49 PM

I would love to hear a side-by-side of these two. I have an Elitist Broadway and an Aria Pro II PE180 (another L5ces clone) but have never actually played an L5ces. I'd love to hear any detailed comparisons/contrasts you can talk about.

**plasticpigeon** · 01-26-2017, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by feet

you should put a floyd rose on the l5 so they'll be different

Originally Posted by feet

very curious to see how they compare. even stock an elitist can be quite formidable.

Well both these guitars are beyond me as a player, and spend a lot of time in their cases as I bash around on a battered squire strat most of the time. There are some quite big differences I suppose. The L-5 is physically heavier, and the Epiphone has a more pronounced arch. The size and general shape is pretty much identical. The epiphone feels sort of newer, the bevel on the edge of the fingerboard is small so the feel is of quite a square edge and that is the same all over, the binding has very small bevels, it is impeccably finished. I think the necks are around the same width, but the epiphone's is very slightly thinner front to back. The L-5 has more little flaws and assymmetry and the binding has much larger bevels. It seems more hand made, you can see the work of man. You could call that charm.

They sound very different unplugged, The epiphone is louder and more boomy. The bass is louder. The L-5 sounds quiet by comparison, but the sound seems more clear, by that I mean the individual notes when playing a chord are easier to discern as the volume of each note seems more equal. Not what I expected really I though the L-5 might be louder. A friend of mine who plays rock and folk described them as stiff. I think he means that they are not jangly like flat top guitars. All these adjectives, who knows what they mean!

Plugged in they are similar and a bit of fiddling can get them to sound pretty much the same. I know an older gentleman who is a fabulous jazz player and he also has an L-5 of similar age. I know he is very particular about the tone, describing to me how he wants the notes to sound like ink dropping onto blotting paper! He was keen to try all three, and I really think he liked the Epiphone the most. I think I love the L-5 for what it is, but as guitars, I couldn't conclusively say that is prefer one over the other, hence my unwillingness to sell the Broadway!

**wintermoon** · 01-26-2017, 01:00 PM

nice '72!

**plasticpigeon** · 01-26-2017, 01:06 PM

Thanks, the pickup covers give it away don't they!

**wintermoon** · 01-26-2017, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by plasticpigeon

Thanks, the pickup covers give it away don't they!

yep!
I sold mine a few years ago, looked about brand new and one of the most flamed out L-5's I've ever seen.

**goldenwave77** · 01-26-2017, 01:21 PM

When and where was the Epiphone made?

**plasticpigeon** · 01-26-2017, 01:30 PM

I think it is 2006 made in Japan.

**Little Jay** · 01-26-2017, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

What differences with the ES175 are there. I have the Epi 175, the Gibson, and an ES165. The measurements and observations I've made seem to make the Epiphone a match in size.

Granted, I've never seen them side by side in real life, but from pictures I always notice subtle differences:

Except for obvious differences as the shape of the head, 2-screw vs 3-screw truss rod cover, I see a different shape of the f-holes (wider and placed lower in the body with the Epi), shape of the cutaway and horn (deeper and pointier on the Gibson), shape of the body (Gibson just looks a bit rounder to me), position of the pickup-switch (a bit closer to the edge in the Gibby), placement of the pick guard (the Epi's upper edge of the guard almost touches the edge of the body, a little more room with the Gibson) and placement of the knobs (neck volume knob closer the the bridge on the Gibson). To me they just look a little different, but I guess these differences are only cosmetic and don't really matter.

**goldenwave77** · 01-26-2017, 03:08 PM

Would you say the amplified sound of the Epiphone Broadway is maybe a little more layered, and acoustic-y sounding, than the L-5., both unplugged and plugged in ?

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Granted, I've never seen them side by side in real life, but from pictures I always notice subtle differences:

Except for obvious differences as the shape of the head, 2-screw vs 3-screw truss rod cover, I see a different shape of the f-holes (wider and placed lower in the body with the Epi), shape of the cutaway and horn (deeper and pointier on the Gibson), shape of the body (Gibson just looks a bit rounder to me), position of the pickup-switch (a bit closer to the edge in the Gibby), placement of the pick guard (the Epi's upper edge of the guard almost touches the edge of the body, a little more room with the Gibson) and placement of the knobs (neck volume knob closer the the bridge on the Gibson). To me they just look a little different, but I guess these differences are only cosmetic and don't really matter.

I suspect they'd matter if one was really wanting a total ES175 "clone." You got me thinking and I did some measuring. The Epiphone's cutaway opens a bit wider than the Gibson, an impression from the photos here but also one confirmed by measurement. Also the heel of the Epiphone neck does not extend down flush with the back of the guitar, but stops at about the top of the binding on the back.

So I actually stand corrected here, you were absolutely right. There are some subtle but definite differences in the shape and size of the two guitars.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-26-2017, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I suspect they'd matter if one was really wanting a total ES175 "clone." You got me thinking and I did some measuring. The Epiphone's cutaway opens a bit wider than the Gibson, an impression from the photos here but also one confirmed by measurement. Also the heel of the Epiphone neck does not extend down flush with the back of the guitar, but stops at about the top of the binding on the back.

So I actually stand corrected here, you were absolutely right. There are some subtle but definite differences in the shape and size of the two guitars.

Good photo comparison. I always thought something looked a little..."off"...about the Epiphones.

Not that it matters, really. But nice to confirm I'm not crazy

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Good photo comparison. I always thought something looked a little..."off"...about the Epiphones.

Not that it matters, really. But nice to confirm I'm not crazy

Not to hi-jack the thread, but I had both right here so here are the other quick and dirty measurements I got:

Lower Bout: Epiphone 15 7/8" Gibson 16 1/8"
Waist: Ephiphone 9 3/8" Gibson 9 1/8"
Upper Bout: Epiphone 11 1/2" Gibson 11 3/8"
Depth: Epiphone 3 1/4" Gibson 3 7/16"
Cutaway Width: Epiphone 3 5/8" Gibson 3 3/8" (measured from the tip of the cutaway to the top of the binding where it joins the neck.

So yes, there are enough differences to create a kind of subliminal sense that it's not all identical. The Epiphone is generally smaller, but has a wider waist and a more open cutaway.

All this time I really did think they were exactly the same.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-26-2017, 04:37 PM

You can definitely see it in the "point" of the cutaway, where the 175 seems to almost "point back in."

I like little stuff like this, it's interesting. Now I'd like to see a picture of a Epiphone Zephyr regent, the model the made in the 90's-00's that was essentially a single pickup 175....off to google.

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

You can definitely see it in the "point" of the cutaway, where the 175 seems to almost "point back in."

I like little stuff like this, it's interesting. Now I'd like to see a picture of a Epiphone Zephyr regent, the model the made in the 90's-00's that was essentially a single pickup 175....off to google.

Yes, that's true. The Gibson does look almost like it curls back in.

I've often eyed that Epi Z-R, but I have the ES165 so it seems unnecessary; but I dearly love solid and serviceable budget archtops!

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2017, 05:43 PM

BTW... and I really am sorry if this is hi-jacking the thread (though we're still talking Gibson/Epiphone) the most obvious difference between the 175s is how the neck is mounted. In the pics, you see the (natural) Epiphone neck heel doesn't cover the full depth of the body, while the Gibson (burst) does. I would theorize the Epiphone is using a neck already made for another model. The Epiphone neck is also slimmer (front to back) though not dramatically so. Still, enough to notice. That's also a difference between the Elitist Broadway and the L5ces.

Remember, the Elitist Broadway is no cheap guitar. The run about $2500 US in very good to excellent condition. Solid wood (though I think pressed, not carved), excellent fit and finish, high-grade appointments and workmanship, really good pickups. I love how mine sounds, and I am a certifiable Gibson Fan Boy.

**2bornot2bop** · 01-26-2017, 05:49 PM

The Epi Premium was created for an entry level target market. As such it shouldn't be expected to appear like a '175 in a lot of ways. Its merit is in its tone, not its appearance. I'd have preferred it to have the thicker neck of a '175, but even that's not a deal breaker because at the end of the day it's a player at a ridiculous price.

Nice L5 and Epiphone Broadway OP!

**Rob MacKillop** · 01-26-2017, 05:57 PM

Lawson, I have that edition of the Odyssey, and think it the best of all the ones I've read. Highly recommended to one and all.

Doh! I'll never be a jazz guitarist, when the big thing about that photo was a book on a shelf in the background! I might as well give up now!

**FredH** · 01-26-2017, 06:01 PM

I've never had the chance to play an L5 but I do own a 2008 Broadway Elitist. It's a great instrument, well made, and a joy to play. I bought because I couldn't afford an L5 and because I heard that they were going to be discontinued and figured it would go up in value. I paid less than $2k for mine in 2008 and the few I see for sale are being offered at more than the original price. It has aged well - probably better than me - and at nearly ten years old is just coming into its own.