My $100 7 string experiment

[JakeAcci]

Long story short, I had really been jonesing for a 7 or 8 string guitar. I've played them in stores a little bit but it's never enough time to really see if it's right for me. Our own Truthhertz here was kind enough to lend me a beautiful 7 string archtop years ago but I think I just wasn't in the mindset at that moment to dive in and explore the possibilities.

I thought a great idea would be to get a really cheap (but playable) 7 string just to explore the concept, and lo and behold with a little searching I found a new dean vendetta 7 string for $100 on Amazon.

Yes the guitar looks like a shred machine but I don't care, I just wanted something to play. It's surprisingly playable and "fine" for a guitar that cheap.

If anybody here has been on the fence about playing around with a 7 string, I'd highly recommend the vendetta. Even just a few days with this thing and I'm having a blast...chord voicings, arpeggios, and of course the extra low notes.

On 6 string I'm always looking for new and interesting chord voicings, involving open strings as well, so having a 7th string has been tons of fun, mainly as I can get not just the lower note but a much larger range of pitches in the same chord (for example, Ab on the 7th string (9th fret) and and F# on the 14th fret high E.

I don't know if I'll wind up making the switch to becoming a full time 7 string player (and playing the 7 is making me thirsty for an 8...) but at least I'll never wonder about 'what could have been.'

[JakeAcci]

I think one of the hardest things to get used to so far is the 7th string is not just a mathematical extension of the range of the guitar per se - at a lower register different intervals function differently and hit the ear in a different way. So for voicings it's definitely not just about finding the same voicings in the lower register - I have to learn a somewhat new set of voicings that involve the low string and know not just what they are theoretically, but what those intervals are going to sound like in the new register.

It's also interesting to try to use the low register without sounding like I'm trying to be melodramatic with some big BONG on a low bass note, or trying to imitate a bass. Similarly, with the gauge strings that came with the guitar using that low string requires a special touch as it does seem a bit floppy, easy to fret sharp, etc. Maybe I'll go with a thicker gauge.

Anybody else recently get into 7 string territory? For those already playing 7 or 8 strings regularly, what were the biggest challenges to overcome at first?

[sgosnell]

I bought a DeArmond 7-string a few years ago. It's an SG clone, made in Indonesia, and one of the best-playing guitars I've ever tried. It really plays like butter, and took very little setup time or effort. It was also sub-$200, and well worth what I paid. I haven't played it in some time though, concentrating more on newer and nicer archtops instead. I like being able to add a low root to some chords, but in truth I never learned to use the 7th string that much. And if you watch 7-string players like Howard Alden and the Pizzarellis, they don't use it all that much either. They use it sparingly, where it works, certainly not on every chord. And when tuning the 7th to an A, you need a really thick string. I don't know what you have, but I use a .070, and it could be thicker, if it would fit through the tuning post.

[ronjazz]

If you use the jazz tuning (low A), there is little to worry about; spend a few hours playing in the dark so you don't confuse your brain by looking at the 7th and "seeing" the 6th. There is repertoire for a low B or C tuning in the Brazilian and classical world's, but jazzers will find more usefulness with low A. For duo work with a singer, hornplayer or another guitarist, it's great fun and really adds a nice warmth and fullness, especially if exploring walking bass or Latin basslines. I modeled my approach on the duo of Jim Hall and Ron Carter rather than the "lap piano" of Van Eps and Pizzarelli, although that's a great study in itself. I have recently hired a bassist who plays 6-string bass, with my bottom end, he can solo up high and we can still have a nice full sound, especially useful in a setting with a percussionist or drummer.

At one point, I had a quintet with drums, two horns and a singer, and that was really fun.

I've had many 7-strings over the years, mostly conversions from 6-string guitars I liked, but my #1 is a Godin Multiac Nylon with RMC pickups (drives a guitar synth), a fantastic guitar.

[JakeAcci]

And if you watch 7-string players like Howard Alden and the Pizzarellis, they don't use it all that much either. They use it sparingly, where it works, certainly not on every chord.

That's a good point. My thinking has been to really explore the possibilities using the 7th string, see if there's enough there to speak to me. And if there is, then I can play 7 string like I play 6 string but simply have that 7th available for the uses that I discover.

If you use the jazz tuning (low A), there is little to worry. I about; spend a few hours playing in the dark so you don't confuse your brain by looking at the 7th and "seeing" the 6th. There is repertoire for a low B or C tuning in the Brazilian and classical world's, but jazzers will find more usefulness with low A. For duo work with a singer, hornplayer or another guitarist, it's great fun and really adds a nice warmth and fullness, especially if exploring walking bass or Latin basslines. I modeled my approach on the duo of Jim Hall and Ron Carter rather than the "lap piano" of Van Eps and Pizzarelli, although that's a great study in itself. I have recently hired a bassist who plays 6-string bass, with my bottom end, he can solo up high and we can still have a nice full sound, especially useful in a setting with a percussionist or drummer.

At one point, I had a quintet with drums, two horns and a singer, and that was really fun.

I've had many 7-strings over the years, mostly conversions from 6-string guitars I liked, but my #1 is a Godin Multiac Nylon with RMC pickups (drives a guitar synth), a fantastic guitar.

Thanks Ron. I've been experimenting with both tunings. From a performance perspective, the low A is convenient and practical, but I like the possibilities of going with the P4 for an almost-consistency of voicings and scale fingerings. It's also neat to go B E A D F# B E, making it sort of like a guitar tuned down a fourth with an added string on top.

All interesting stuff.

[ah.clem]

I recently added a cheap Chibson 7 string Les Paul archtop for $200 and free shipping, not expecting much but not risking much. It's mainly for flying with in case I have to plane-side check it but so far have been able to get it into crew closet. In any case, once set up with TI 12 Jazz flats and a .070 low A, even my instructor was surprised at what a good player it is.

Yes, you have to think about voicings differently but it isn't a big deal to learn. But you don't just change the root of all your 5th string voicings to a 7th root. Along with some much fuller sounding voicings (and some interesting triads), the 7th string really adds to your walking options.

There are quite a few 7 string players here but no one has ever asked for a separate forum. Not sure if needed, but I have been studying 7 exclusively for the last 3 years. At some point it might be interesting to exchange ideas or techniques. Just a thought.

[christianm77]

Nah, what you need is one of these:

Ibanez M80M 8-String Meshuggah Signature Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend

[TH]

Ibanez has cheap ones, the AX7221 made in Korea is easy to find for $150. That's the one I got. Then there was a cheap Chinese hollow Les Paul, changed the pickups to Duncans and its a SERIOUS toy. I love it.
Now that I've got a custom, I can't go back to anything else. And I never have the urge to buy another guitar.

I use low B. I'm playing melodically so I like the whole scale and interval consistency of that tuning. For two years prior, I had a 335 type guitar, tuned it down a 4th, and at the fifth fret, I re-dotted the neck with some tape so it was the same as a regular 6 string from there. That meant BEADF#B open and EADGBE at the 5th fret. I thought of it as a six string with an extra lower register below the 5th.
I still see the guitar that way. Having a low A was nice chordally, but the low B was invaluable in melodic lines.

ah.clem, it really is a different mindset for me. I don't really think about the low notes, but the thing I love and need is access to 2.5 octaves for any given position. Not having to shift down the neck when I need a lower note. Thinking of the 7th string as a doubled B string voice and utilizing voicings with root on the B string by reaching to the 7.
It took me about 6 months to seriously become at ease, be at peace with D being dead centre of the neck. At a year, I could not play 6 string anymore. I'd always be reaching for a string that wasn't there.

David

[JakeAcci]

Nah, what you need is one of these:

Ibanez M80M 8-String Meshuggah Signature Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend

can I get one for $200?

[ah.clem]

I've had many 7-strings over the years, mostly conversions from 6-string guitars I liked, but my #1 is a Godin Multiac Nylon with RMC pickups (drives a guitar synth), a fantastic guitar.

Did you convert the existing neck or replace the neck entirely? I have thought about converting a few of my 6 strings, but I think the string spacing would be much too close for me. As it is, I find the spacing on my Eastman to be a bit narrow for some grips. They are easier on the Ibanez 957 but I suspect it has a bit wider nut or the nut slots were cut wider (the Ibanez 207 I was using for a while also had a very comfortable string spacing). I don't have that much time in on the Chibson Les Paul, but IIRC from my last trip, it was a bit narrow, also.

[Slide]

You might want to try converting a 12 string instead of a 6 string. Nate Lopez converted a 12 string acoustic flattop to a 7 string.

[ah.clem]

ah.clem, it really is a different mindset for me. I don't really think about the low notes, but the thing I love and need is access to 2.5 octaves for any given position. Not having to shift down the neck when I need a lower note. Thinking of the 7th string as a doubled B string voice and utilizing voicings with root on the B string by reaching to the 7.
It took me about 6 months to seriously become at ease, be at peace with D being dead centre of the neck. At a year, I could not play 6 string anymore. I'd always be reaching for a string that wasn't there.

This is very interesting to think about, but I don't think it's anything that I would be trying out in the near future. I believe that I understand what you are doing but I am still working on getting down my walking and subs and tricks to connect the changes. I am also still thrilled by the full sound of the 7th string when I grab it in a chord (GM7 at the 10th fret? Yowza!!) and still have many years to go learning to play influenced by Van Eps (less so Bucky, too much single line for me, not enough sweet chord action - I know, sacrilege, burn the warlock!!) before I head off in new directions. I know the sound I want to achieve on the 7, I just have not developed the facility yet; every now and then I catch a snippet in Van Eps, Bucky, John or Joe Pass that just resonates what I feel I want to express, but need much more "time on the instrument" (as one member here used to say, Pierre, maybe?) to be able to get there.

It would be interesting to know how many 7 string folks are on the board; I can think of 4 or 5.

David

[zdub]

Rondo has a few sub $200 7-strings model in their Douglas line (their very crappy website doesn't even list them under the 7-string menu!), plus a $150 Hadean 7-string, plus LOT of more expensive 7 & 8 strings (& 9 & 10), as well as a bunch of 7 & 8 string acoustics for $400-500.

A good resource for more info is The Seven String Guitar Authority - SevenString.org

[TH]

Did you convert the existing neck or replace the neck entirely? I have thought about converting a few of my 6 strings, but I think the string spacing would be much too close for me. As it is, I find the spacing on my Eastman to be a bit narrow for some grips. They are easier on the Ibanez 957 but I suspect it has a bit wider nut or the nut slots were cut wider (the Ibanez 207 I was using for a while also had a very comfortable string spacing). I don't have that much time in on the Chibson Les Paul, but IIRC from my last trip, it was a bit narrow, also.

Remember that you also need to anchor the strings at the other end, so just replacing a neck means just getting a new tailpiece too. Benedetto has a nice solution, they have the same neck chin width but the neck above the body flares out to accommodate a wider fingerboard. Not a good idea to put 7 strings on a 6 string neck. Aside from the obvious business of putting another machine head on there, unless you've got a classical width neck to begin with, you'll wind up with a VERY narrow string spacing. And again, once you get down there to the bridge, that's a whole lot wider than 6 strings.

You can convert it, but it's a big job, and depending on the guitar, you'll need a luthier to do it. Not so much a cheap solution.
David

[TH]

It would be interesting to know how many 7 string folks are on the board; I can think of 4 or 5.

David

There was a thread that ran I think it was something like "Any 7 string players out there?" but Danged if my search function doesn't work. I can't get spaces into my responses sometimes, I can't do searches, I think the forum is telling me to get off the computer and take care of real life.
David

[ah.clem]

You can convert it, but it's a big job, and depending on the guitar, you'll need a luthier to do it. Not so much a cheap solution.
David

Yeah, pretty much what I figured. I really like my Peerless Imperial but it's not gotten a lot of play over the last 3 years. I was considering finding a luthier who might take on the task of building a new neck with the nut width of the Ibanez models and adding a hand wound 7 string 14 pole and a Benedetto-like tailpiece.

OTOH, I can get one of those Yunzi or Yolanda Team 7s built for around a grand without the electronics (I would add a built-in humbucker ala Benedetto these days) but that does not solve my problem of too many 6 strings I'm not ready to part with.

I may be relocating closer to some of the grand kids soon, and one of them, although not a teenager yet, plays wicked blues and jazz piano and has been studying jazz drumming for a few years (I told him I would only pay for lessons if he started out learning jazz); perhaps he will take an interest in picking up jazz guitar or bass and he will be stuck with a bunch of instruments one day. Kids are such natural players. Last time he was here he played "Take Five" and "Blue Monk", just jammin', not trying to show me anything. I love that kid!

[Dookychase]

I have a 7 string that Jimmy Foster built for me, its the St. Charles model, 15" lower bout. Jimmy also started to build a 7 string nylon and was about a quarter of the way done when he passed away. His protégé is finishing it for me for free. He and I are good friends.

He started building guitars under his own name. Louis Dupaquier (doo-pah-kay)