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I recently played a gig where Fender Twin was the house amp. Now, I'm not a fan of Twins at all, they are too clean, brittle, not harmonically reach for me... I used some overdrive pedal to get the sound I wanted, so in the end the sound guy came to me, we talked, and he suggested if I want more natural break up tone, I can take out 2 power amp tubes, and run it with just 2 remaning tubes, to get the Twin to breakup! I've never heard of such manipulauion, is there any truth to it??
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11-14-2016 09:44 PM
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That is correct, they work in pairs (in parallel) and you can do it. Either the 2 on the outside or the 2 in the inside of the quartet. A bias adjustment might be necessary, but it shouldn't hurt anything.
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Even with 2 power tubes removed the twin is a pretty loud amp to push to the point where it breaks up.
I think the pedal is a solid tack to take.
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Twins are loud. No doubt about it. Sure did love my '68. I played club gigs and concerts with it and never felt overpowered (by anything else). I replaced the JBL's with SRO's, which added insult to injury with the 30lbs each that they contributed. I nearly cried when I had to sell it. But, if you wanted power and clean, the twin was king. No doubt about it. You need a strong back (weak mind perhaps), for sure, and definitely hard on the ears. If you like your ears and your back, maybe not so much the best choice. 45 years later, there are so many options for the jazzhead, it's ridiculous. But, the twin, if you want loud and clean, is in it's own category.
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I would be still interested to experiment if it's no harm to the amp. I'm not holding my breath that I'm gonna like the sound though... AFAIK Twins are not made to give a satisfactory breakup.
Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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That's exactly why I don't like them. Loud and clean. More like TOO loud and TOO clean. Any guitar I played through it was bad, and I'm not convinced it takes pedals well. Originally Posted by skykomishone
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Putting a 12ax7 in the phase inverter (v6) instead of the 12at7 warms it up as well. An old trick is to pull the 12ax7 from v1 and put that in v6. As v1 and v2 share an 820ohm grid resistor, that resistor becomes now the grid resistor solely for v2 only and gives it more gain (higher bias).
So with only two power tubes and v1 in v6 it becomes a different amp already. A higher or even adjustable negative feedback resistor can be useful as well to steer a Twin into a more gainy and saturated feel.
I did all that with my Twin, only to return to the original configuration. i love Twins! Don't be afraid to turn your mids fully up, though.
(That would be my tip for you if you encounter a Twin on stage again: turn the mids full up to 10, treble and bass on resp. 3 and 2. See how you like that.)
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There's always a first for everything. Too loud? ok I can get that (they DO have a volume control) ... too clean, hmmm... I guess so, maybe, but ANY git in it was bad? THAT'S a first I never thought I would hear. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Now heavy? That's a bitch I could relate to.Last edited by GNAPPI; 11-15-2016 at 11:34 AM.
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The later (1970s onward) Fender Twins have ultralinear output transformer that in theory might try to defeat the purpose (more breakup and sustain) of removing two tubes.
Last edited by icr; 11-15-2016 at 02:28 PM.
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Yes. I think they came only late '76, all Silverfaces from '68- '76 have normal OT (it's the output transformer that's ultralinear btw, not the PT). Originally Posted by icr
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I used to do this with my 71 Bassman. The other thing you want to remember is if you run it on two tubes for a while, you want to rotate the tubes so they see equal time in the sockets. Unbalanced tubes have unpleasant distortion characteristics. Originally Posted by abelljo
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I shouldnt have used 'bad', I really meant uninspiring. It wasn't that bad, passable, but wish there was other choice. And yes, with any guitar. It's my least favorite tube amp, but it's so ubiquitous, I have to deal with it. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
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Hmm, like how much time are we talking about? Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
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I actually prefer the ultralinear post 76 master volume models but mine has to work for violin and guitar. The preamp can get nice grit on input 1 of the reverb channel but it is a gentle progressive thing as you turn the dial not a rude roadhouse sound. I'm using mine as a big warm tube clean sound source at all volume levels and this is what that transformer is good for. It will let you set the preamp where you want it for tone and the output down to conversation levels while preserving excellent sound, depending on the speakers. This is why I can still hear. Before breakup more preamp will give you more compression. Since I just need it to be clean I use input 2 so the volume knob isn't as sensitive. Pedals work great on all the different Twin models I've played, set for warm clean sound reproduction what you get out will enhance what you put in. It's a bit like computers, Bulls**t in = bulls**t out.
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Yes, of course, output. Originally Posted by Little Jay
I left the ultralinear output transformer and entire PI and six-output tube configuration in a SuperTwin Reverb that got some preamp modifications. I added an overdrive section and left the output pretty much original. Came out sounding pretty good.
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The super twin is the baddest ass of ALL the bad ass amps. I Love the EQ on it, if you can't get tone from one, you need more than an amp to get it.
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Originally Posted by icr
Now, that's well done! Your Twin sounds great, and I assume it's a natural overdrive coming from the preamp section? I'd love to play through an amp like that, unfortunately the one I have to use sounds nothing like it.
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Yes, the preamp section in this amplifier follows the style of an Overdrive Special Skyliner circuit. I wired the amp so the "Distortion" knob actually controls the overdrive section. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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That's brilliant, man! Why can't they make them like that stock? Instead of that mediocre cleans (sorry can't help!!) Originally Posted by icr
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It's got to be tube turrets syndrome, for you it has to come out dirty, you're not ready for a clean amp yet. If a Marshall is out of the question check out something like the various tube pre amp pedals made by Radial. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Well, the whole thread idea was about if I can make Twin to break up without a pedal.. But thanks, I didn't know a preference for clean guitar tone is the sign of maturity, and there's only choice between Twin and Marshall. I share a secret- check out Bassman or tweed Fenders, it's a whole different world out there Originally Posted by Cavalier
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See, now that you limited your life to Marshals and Fenders, realized clean means maturity you've grown up a notch. Riiiiiight...... I'm pretty sure I have more than a few miles on you so I'll share a secret back. I have played real tweeds of all descriptions . Nice for what they can do but limited for my application. What model of Twin are you trying to use? Is it one with the push pull master volume? Single coil or humbucker? A hot humbucker can get a lot more preamp grit with a master volume model on the reverb side into input one. Normal will always sound normal as I'm sure you know. Without a pedal it is going to be a hot pickup or amp mod. Truth is pulling 2 tubes is still going to be loud if you are trying to drive the power amp. With a pedal input 2 is a better idea unless it is a boost which can be a nice compromise.
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I'll tell you my personal secret: nothing bores me more than electric guitar played through a perfectly clean amp. I don't think there's a hope for me, I'm a lost cause, trust me. Originally Posted by Cavalier
Now, with this out of the way, I'm not sure what model that Twin was, but it looks just like this one:
My guitar is usually P90 like equipped hollowbody Guild. Rather low output pickup, to be honest. In the past, I played Gibson with humbuckers, but it still wasn't too good for my liking.
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LOL, ummmm, you're screwed, Looks like a 65 reissue. I'm not sure that even qualifies as a real Twin with those printed circuit boards. Even a real 65 would be clean with those pickups till it was cranked. You could get hotter p 90s but you should just give up and go the pedal route if volume is the issue. Those Radials cover a lot of bases check out the demos. Last secret, I run clean high quality amps so my rack set up sounds great. A master volume Twin or anything from a red knob on, as long as it isn't a reissue, can get a serviceable sound. See, I agree with you about your situation, trust those ears. For more grit I tend toward my old Ampegs.
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So with the old basic circuits that people like they have to be cranked which is why the small Fenders are so expensive. People will hate the thought of master volumes let alone the sacrilege of red knobs but in the big sizes like the twin you have to go to those things unless you are in a Colosseum when you crank it up. The problem with hot pickups in the hollow Guild will be increased feedback.
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