Distance between strings and body on a Gibson ES-175

[MatsP]

I suppose a Gibson ES-175 is pretty representative for a jazz archtop. I don't own one, but in case anyone here does, it would be interesting to know the approximate distance from the strings to the guitar body on such a beast. Somewhere between the pickups would be a good place to measure at, I guess. Thanks in advance.

[MatsP]

And I'm mostly interested by the distance of the low E string to the guitar body, by the way.

[lawson-stone]

And I'm mostly interested by the distance of the low E string to the guitar body, by the way.

On my ES175, about midway between the pickups, from the guitar top to the bottom of the low E string is .859"

[grahambop]

On my ES175, about midway between the pickups, from the guitar top to the bottom of the low E string is .859"

On mine, it's .875" (7/8ths).

[neatomic]

really depends on how low or high you've set your action

cheers

[sgosnell]

The neck angle is the important factor for string height. On some archtops the bridge has to be set pretty high even with low action. IME the height of the strings above the top is very variable from instrument to instrument.

[MatsP]

really depends on how low or high you've set your action

cheers

Yes, I know, I just wanted a rough approximation, to be able to compare with my Schecter C-1 Classic.

[MatsP]

On my ES175, about midway between the pickups, from the guitar top to the bottom of the low E string is .859"

Thanks.

[MatsP]

On mine, it's .875" (7/8ths).

Thanks. The reason I'm asking, by the way, is to see whether it would be possible to rest the lower end of the palm on the body comfortably while playing the lower strings. There seems to be no chance in hell to do that with an ES-175 Compare this with a Fender Stratocaster and its small distance between strings and guitar body.

[Little Jay]

Thanks. The reason I'm asking, by the way, is to see whether it would be possible to rest the lower end of the palm on the body comfortably while playing the lower strings. There seems to be no chance in hell to do that with an ES-175 Compare this with a Fender Stratocaster and its small distance between strings and guitar body.

Yup. The archtop design typically doesn't allow for that. I have no trouble with that though, and I switch from my ES-125 to my telecaster without any adjusting problems.

[MatsP]

Yup. The archtop design typically doesn't allow for that. I have no trouble with that though, and I switch from my ES-125 to my telecaster without any adjusting problems.

You mean with "I have no trouble with that" that you DO rest your palm on the guitar body on an ES-175? Or that it simply doesn't pose a problem to you in general? It's convenient to be able to do it on a Tele or Strat, but I guess I'll have to invent some other way to achieve picking precision on the lower strings for guitars that have higher string height, such as Les Paul with Tune-o-Matic, my Schecter C-1 Classic or archtops. I've seen one guy mention using the curled pinky brushing against higher strings as a guide. It sounds like one possible solution. If I were to play with the palm resting on the bridge, this wouldn't be a problem, but I prefer playing close to the neck pickup, especially on guitars that aren't dedicated "jazz guitars" per se, in order to achieve a fuller and more jazzy tone.

[Little Jay]

You mean with "I have no trouble with that" that you DO rest your palm on the guitar body on an ES-175? Or that it simply doesn't pose a problem to you in general? It's convenient to be able to do it on a Tele or Strat, but I guess I'll have to invent some other way to achieve picking precision on the lower strings for guitars that have higher string height, such as Les Paul with Tune-o-Matic, my Schecter C-1 Classic or archtops. I've seen one guy mention using the curled pinky brushing against higher strings as a guide. It sounds like one possible solution. If I were to play with the palm resting on the bridge, this wouldn't be a problem, but I prefer playing close to the neck pickup, especially on guitars that aren't dedicated "jazz guitars" per se, in order to achieve a fuller and more jazzy tone.

I play close to the bridge pu too. On an archtop it's not my palm that rests on the body, but the forearm, leaving the hand and wrist more or less floating in the air. Probably my palm rests on the lower strings when I ply the higher strings and floats free when I play the lower strings. Some players anchor their pinky on the scratchplate, but I don't.

Well, at least that's how I think I do it, I never really observed very close or gave it a second thought, but you made me curious now, let me analyze tonight when I get back home how the heck I play guitar anyway!

[MatsP]

I play close to the bridge pu too. On an archtop it's not my palm that rests on the body, but the forearm, leaving the hand and wrist more or less floating in the air. Probably my palm rests on the lower strings when I ply the higher strings and floats free when I play the lower strings. Some players anchor their pinky on the scratchplate, but I don't.

Well, at least that's how I think I do it, I never really observed very close or gave it a second thought, but you made me curious now, let me analyze tonight when I get back home how the heck I play guitar anyway!

Haha... well, most guitarists really don't think a lot about what they're doing, so that's nothing new Neither did I in the past, but I've become more analytic with age, I guess. Anyway, I get what you mean by resting your forearm on the body. Perhaps that's enough to achieve precision on the low strings. I'll try that one too. I don't really like the idea of anchoring the pinky, since it limits the free movement of the wrist somewhat, at least that's how I feel.

EDIT: Using the pinky, not curled, but not really straight either, to brush the high E string or so works pretty well as a guide when playing on the low E string, rather than bending the hand downwards on the body. That's a bit awkward with a large string-to-body distance.

[grahambop]

I play close to the bridge pu too. On an archtop it's not my palm that rests on the body, but the forearm, leaving the hand and wrist more or less floating in the air. Probably my palm rests on the lower strings when I ply the higher strings and floats free when I play the lower strings.

This is similar to what I do.

[MatsP]

This is similar to what I do.

Yes, and what I do, at least with respect to touching lower strings with the palm when playing on higher strings. The question is how to get any precision when playing a tremolo or other fast figure on the low E string when the hand is completely floating, since it won't have any support from lower strings. I suppose you're either consciously or subconciously using the pinky or some other finger on a higher string as a point of reference, or am I wrong?

Speaking of something else, I bought Jimmy Bruno's "The Art of Picking" some time ago, and as you probably know, he advocates movement from the forearm. While it can be very efficient together with his economy picking, it does have some limitations in certain areas. Recently I've gone back to using more wrist motion and less forearm motion. Just a parenthesis

EDIT: I watched some of your videos, and it doesn't look like you're using any pinky or so as a guide. I suppose the ES-175 might provide a larger contact point for the forearm than a solidbody like Les Paul, I don't know. In any case your picking looks very relaxed.

[grahambop]

Yes, and what I do, at least with respect to touching lower strings with the palm when playing on higher strings. The question is how to get any precision when playing a tremolo or other fast figure on the low E string when the hand is completely floating, since it won't have any support from lower strings. I suppose you're either consciously or subconciously using the pinky or some other finger on a higher string as a point of reference, or am I wrong?

Speaking of something else, I bought Jimmy Bruno's "The Art of Picking" some time ago, and as you probably know, he advocates movement from the forearm. While it can be very efficient together with his economy picking, it does have some limitations in certain areas. Recently I've gone back to using more wrist motion and less forearm motion. Just a parenthesis

EDIT: I watched some of your videos, and it doesn't look like you're using any pinky or so as a guide. I suppose the ES-175 might provide a larger contact point for the forearm than a solidbody like Les Paul, I don't know. In any case your picking looks very relaxed.

Interesting points, I have never really thought about this before. You're right, I never use my pinky to support my hand. I just checked what I do and it seems that on the 6th string, I play 'floating' as you said. On the 5th string, I am just about brushing my hand on the strings but very lightly. On the 4th string and above, I am resting slightly more on the strings. But I really don't think about any of this when I play. It doesn't seem to cause me any problems on the 6th string, but I suppose I don't tend to stay on it for very long.

[MatsP]

Interesting points, I have never really thought about this before. You're right, I never use my pinky to support my hand. I just checked what I do and it seems that on the 6th string, I play 'floating' as you said. On the 5th string, I am just about brushing my hand on the strings but very lightly. On the 4th string and above, I am resting slightly more on the strings. But I really don't think about any of this when I play. It doesn't seem to cause me any problems on the 6th string, but I suppose I don't tend to stay on it for very long.

Yes, I can understand this is all subconscious to you. And yes, we usually don't do much work on the 6th string, so I guess it's not a major issue after all. I will try to analyze a little less, and play a little more. That's what it's about after all

[neatomic]

of course you could always try wes positioning!! hah



cheers

[MatsP]

of course you could always try wes positioning!! hah



cheers

Right!

[Little Jay]

Watching myself on this little practice movie I made some time ago, I see my right hand is completely free floating, the only support is the forearm laying on the body, also when playing low strings. I don't experience a lack of precision (but it could be there, I just don't notice it ).

[MatsP]

Watching myself on this little practice movie I made some time ago, I see my right hand is completely free floating, the only support is the forearm laying on the body, also when playing low strings. I don't experience a lack of precision (but it could be there, I just don't notice it ).

Good one. No, no lack of precision there alright Thanks!

[MatsP]

I suppose the goal is to make the hand feel as relaxed when playing on the low E string as it is when it has some support from lower strings when you play on higher strings...

[MatsP]

Good one. No, no lack of precision there alright Thanks!

It sometimes looks like you're resting the whole forearm up to the wrist on the guitar body, but that might just be because it's so dark in that region, it's hard to see what's going on...

[Little Jay]

Your thread made me more aware of picking techniques :-)

This video is interesting. Grant Green has the whole forearm on the body (like me), Barney is completely free floating and Kenny is anchoring with a least his little finger: