Need Help picking first archtop amp - Total Beginner

**tfling** · 07-30-2016, 07:19 PM

My only guitar is a new Eastman AR371-CE (Flatwound Chrome 12s) that I picked up last week and now I am looking for an amp
I have narrowed my search down to 3 choices

Polytone MiniBrute 1 (diamond tolex, no reverb, no red knob, just treble, bass, volume and tone switch) $250 - but needs a new grill

Henriksen Bud - $1099 (Talked with a few dealers and they agreed that it can do the dark jazz amp thing)

Milkman Sound 300watt half and half (tube preamp/class D hybrid in a Princeton sized combo 28lbs)- $2049

I like the stereotypical dark/dry rolled off jazz guitar tones and am trying to keep the physical footprint of the amp small - I am currently just playing for my own enjoyment and want inspiring clean tones

Amps I have owned in the past are: Two Rock Studio Pro 22, ZT Lunchbox Jr., DV Mark Little Jazz, Hiwatt DR103 clone

which would you choose and why?
Many thanks

**Boston Joe** · 07-30-2016, 07:28 PM

If it were me, I'd probably go for the Polytone, but that's because it's cheap. If you don't like it you can probably unload it for what you paid for it. I had a Polytone for a while, and I use one at rehearsals because that's what's in the rehearsal room. Good amps. Classic sound.

I haven't played the other two, but I've heard nothing but praise for the Heinricksen.

**Greentone** · 07-30-2016, 08:00 PM

I, too, would start with the Polytone. You can always sell it for $250. Lots of folks play their Mini Brutes without grille covers, by the way. For a long period in the 70s to the early 80s, the grilles were foam material. After 35 years this turns to dust. I'm lucky in that among my many Polytones, the ones with foam grilles still have intact grills--but that isn't the norm.

Polytones do the jazz tone thing very well, which is why almost all players in jazz guitar used them from 1975-1995. Polytone almost cornered the jazz market. If you went to a university and studied jazz guitar, it's what you saw in the instruction and practice rooms in all likelihood. It's also what the artists brought to campus and used on their records.

The Bud is an exceptional new amp. It is THE successor to the Mini Brute concept.

Another used amp to watch for is an old Roland Cube 60 (the orange ones). Lots of jazz guys used these, too. They are great sounding amps and rarely break.

**tfling** · 07-30-2016, 08:25 PM

Do you have any first hand experience with The Bud? Will it nail the dark round polytone sound?
I am leaning towards the Bud currently because of the small footprint and the reliability factor

**Jim Soloway** · 07-30-2016, 09:06 PM

I've owned several Polytones including some older ones that sounded really nice but they all ended up needing service at some point and that always turned out to be a problem. There are a lot of alternatives that I like better.

As for the Bud, I have no first hand experience but I love what Tim Lerch is getting from his. I'm giving it some thought for myself.

**marcwhy** · 07-30-2016, 09:12 PM

With the three amps you've selected, and as a first amp for a newbie, I'd recommend the Polytone. Inexpensive and sounds good.

The other two amps are excellent, but your "sound" and "taste" will change as you progress, so don't start with really expensive amps (you'll just end up selling them at a loss!). After a year or two, maybe you'll want a different amp, and you can go big if you'd like.

**tfling** · 07-30-2016, 10:05 PM

This was my initial thought as well - but coming from my last few boutique amps (most recently Two Rock) I am spoiled by luscious cleans, low weight, and dead quiet operation - which is pushing me towards the Henriksen
I may go play the Polytone before I decide (if the seller ever gets back to me)

I should specify, I am not new to playing, just new to this style - I have played various styles in the past from ambient (60b pedalboard and Hiwatt setup), to blues, and rock. I just wanted to mix things up and force myself to learn a new style, so i sold everything and am starting fresh with learning jazz guitar

**Max405** · 07-30-2016, 10:05 PM

Hi, See if you can find a used Fender George Benson Hotrod deluxe. For $600 you will be set for a while.
There is nothing like a good tube amp.
JD

**Dennis D** · 07-30-2016, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

I've owned several Polytones including some older ones that sounded really nice but they all ended up needing service at some point and that always turned out to be a problem. There are a lot of alternatives that I like better.

As for the Bud, I have no first hand experience but I love what Tim Lerch is getting from his. I'm giving it some thought for myself.

What are ' some of the alternatives that you like better ' ?

Thanks.

**wzpgsr** · 07-30-2016, 10:48 PM

I put a humbucker sized P90 in my 371 and really like how it sounds through both my amps: a 1966 Ampeg Gemini II and a tweed Princeton clone. The Ampeg is more transparent, the Princeton clone is fat and dark.

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**Jim Soloway** · 07-31-2016, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

What are ' some of the alternatives that you like better ' ?

Thanks.

I'm currently running a Gallien Krueger MB200 with a ported 1x10 cab that works well. Henriksen make several models other than the Bud that are nice. Several of the Roland Cubes work well. I've always been a fan of the many Princeton Reverb clones. I'm sure others here can add a few more.

**Boston Joe** · 07-31-2016, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by tfling

This was my initial thought as well - but coming from my last few boutique amps (most recently Two Rock) I am spoiled by luscious cleans, low weight, and dead quiet operation - which is pushing me towards the Henriksen

Two Rocks are fantastic amps, and probably would have suited you just fine for getting started with jazz. I have a Dr. Z Maz 18, which is not a "jazz amp" per se, but sounds great in that context. (Unfortunately, it's heavy as **** so I only use it for gigs. My "every day" amp is an Acoustic Lead 60 - which is also worth checking out. It's a bit of a "stealth" amp, because they're cheap and all over the place at Guitar Center, so you'd be forgiven for thinking it's just a cheap amp for kids. I mean, it is, but it also sounds really good, and does jazz tones well.).

But as others have pointed out, your taste, and what you're looking for for a tone will likely change. If you go for something cheap-ish now, in a while when you've got some jazz chops and a direction for your playing, you'll have a better idea of what kind of amp will suit your playing best.

Don't rule out tube amps, either. Plenty of guys are using Princetons, Twins, Deluxe Reverbs, etc. I even had a Vox AC-15 for a while that sounded great with my archtop.

**Dennis D** · 07-31-2016, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

Two Rocks are fantastic amps, and probably would have suited you just fine for getting started with jazz. I have a Dr. Z Maz 18, which is not a "jazz amp" per se, but sounds great in that context. (Unfortunately, it's heavy as **** so I only use it for gigs. My "every day" amp is an Acoustic Lead 60 - which is also worth checking out. It's a bit of a "stealth" amp, because they're cheap and all over the place at Guitar Center, so you'd be forgiven for thinking it's just a cheap amp for kids. I mean, it is, but it also sounds really good, and does jazz tones well.).

But as others have pointed out, your taste, and what you're looking for for a tone will likely change. If you go for something cheap-ish now, in a while when you've got some jazz chops and a direction for your playing, you'll have a better idea of what kind of amp will suit your playing best.

Don't rule out tube amps, either. Plenty of guys are using Princetons, Twins, Deluxe Reverbs, etc. I even had a Vox AC-15 for a while that sounded great with my archtop.

I like that look of the Vox too.....

I could see that in my living room - - which is where this amp would always be for me - -never gigged..........I just wonder if at living room volume I can get an even - non trebly - response.

Would this marry up ok with an L-5 w/ one humbucker ??

**Boston Joe** · 07-31-2016, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

I like that look of the Vox too.....

I could see that in my living room - - which is where this amp would always be for me - -never gigged..........I just wonder if at living room volume I can get an even - non trebly - response.

Would this marry up ok with an L-5 w/ one humbucker ??

No idea. My archtop is an Epi Joe Pass (Emperor II). I'll never be able to afford an L-5. With the JP, it sounded great. I like a fairly balanced tone with perhaps a bit more high end than a lot of people seem to like. Voxes are known for being fairly bright, but I found that I got a nice smooth, well-rounded tone from it. Unfortunately, I didn't have it that long. My house got robbed fairly shortly after I bought it.

My Dr. Z is meant to be something between a Fender and a Vox, (talk about your luscious cleans), and does the jazz thing just fine. So... I don't know. It's a question of what suits your ears.

**Dennis D** · 07-31-2016, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

No idea. My archtop is an Epi Joe Pass (Emperor II). I'll never be able to afford an L-5. With the JP, it sounded great. I like a fairly balanced tone with perhaps a bit more high end than a lot of people seem to like. Voxes are known for being fairly bright, but I found that I got a nice smooth, well-rounded tone from it. Unfortunately, I didn't have it that long. My house got robbed fairly shortly after I bought it.

My Dr. Z is meant to be something between a Fender and a Vox, (talk about your luscious cleans), and does the jazz thing just fine. So... I don't know. It's a question of what suits your ears.

I thought I'd never be able to afford an L-5 either. My ' still-kicking-myself ' mistake was to sell an Ampeg I'd owned since the '60's for a Peavey Envoy. The Peavey was sorta ok with my L-4, but now is all bright and I cannot dial in an even response.

Just noticed too that Vox is - -47 pounds ??? Is that right ?? Whew.....

**Longways to Go** · 07-31-2016, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

I thought I'd never be able to afford an L-5 either. My ' still-kicking-myself ' mistake was to sell an Ampeg I'd owned since the '60's for a Peavey Envoy. The Peavey was sorta ok with my L-4, but now is all bright and I cannot dial in an even response.

Just noticed too that Vox is - -47 pounds ??? Is that right ?? Whew.....

I've got the Vox AC 10 -- the 15's newer little brother. It's a great sounding amp -- makes for all kinds of good jazz tones. I actually like it a little better than my Princeton !

**Dennis D** · 07-31-2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Longways to Go

I've got the Vox AC 10 -- the 15's newer little brother. It's a great sounding amp -- makes for all kinds of good jazz tones. I actually like it a little better than my Princeton !

Is that a spring reverb ? The AC 15 actually says ' spring '.

Thx.

**Boston Joe** · 07-31-2016, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

Just noticed too that Vox is - -47 pounds ??? Is that right ?? Whew.....

Yeah, Voxes are not known for their extreme portability.

**Longways to Go** · 07-31-2016, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

Is that a spring reverb ? The AC 15 actually says ' spring '.

Thx.

The AC 10 has digital reverb, I think it sounds pretty good too. 10" speaker, 27 pounds.
Something very cool about the Vox sound.

To the OP, the Henriksen Bud certainly would make a great choice if you don't mind spending the $$$

**vinnyv1k** · 07-31-2016, 06:55 PM

For the same price the Henriksen 310 is a much better choice IMO than a Bud. The 310 is very light and a lot more tone for the same price. TMZ sells them for $975.00 and the 312 for $1065.00. If you don't have a car I guess the Bud is a good choice.

**louistopat** · 07-31-2016, 10:04 PM

I recently bought the Fender Princeton limited edition Navy Blues with Celestion Blue 12" speaker and I couldn't be happier. Don't be put off by the 15 watt speaker. It's very sensitive, so the volume doesn't need to be turned up anywhere near the break-up point in order to get a great tone.

It's also the best looking blackface amp I've seen

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**Cunamara** · 07-31-2016, 10:18 PM

The amp that has superseded everything else for me is my tweed Deluxe (5E3) clone. Small, light (28 lbs), loud enough for a quintet with sax, trumpet, drums and electric bass. Fat, rich tone. Maybe souds a smidge better with fat single coils like P90s and Charlie Christian pickups than with humbuckers (on the bass end of the tone).

A lot of classic jazz guitar was recorded with a tweed Deluxe at Rudy Van Gelder's studio. I recommend checking something like that out.

I've got a Cube 60, also a very reliable and good sounding amp. I have a Clarus 2r wth a Raezer's Edge 12" cab which was my standard gigging rig for years. And for a while I had good results with using a powered speaker, placing a Zoom MS100bt pedal in front of it doing some amp sim, reverb, EQ, etc. But right now I like the Deluxe better than all of those.