Buying guitars over the internet?

[agentsmith]

Curious how many of you guys who do a lot of remote buying insist on a 48hr eval period? Seems odd that folks would shell out $3k-$5k without the option of returning if something isn't structurally sound or as advertised. I tried to buy a 50 year old axe today off reverb.com and even though the instrument was several thousand dollars the seller wouldn't give me the chance to evalulate though I indicated I would be responsible for shipping costs and an evaluation receipt from a repairman should the instrument need to be returned.

To me, that is a sign that I don't want to do business with someone. Not like it's a $200 brand new pedal.

[2bornot2bop]

Granted by the seller, or not, your "evaluation period" begins the moment a guitar arrives and you evaluate it. But it's incumbent upon you the buyer to have paid via CC, or Paypal, and the item sold not described as is, for you to avail yourself of a potential refund in the event a guitar was sold "not described as is."

Pretty simple stuff really. Personally I don't touch vintage guitars, as there's too much more that can potentially be wrong with them that I know nothing about. But I'd like to own one.

[GNAPPI]

Without a seller being willing to an eval period I would not consider buying it.

I have bought a more than a few online and in every case the condition was better than the PO's description.

[agentsmith]

Granted by the seller, or not, your "evaluation period" begins the moment a guitar arrives and you evaluate it. But it's incumbent upon you the buyer to have paid via CC, or Paypal, and the item sold not described as is, for you to avail yourself of a potential refund in the event a guitar was sold "not described as is."

Pretty simple stuff really. Personally I don't touch vintage guitars, as there's too much more that can potentially be wrong with them that I know nothing about. But I'd like to own one.

i'm just the opposite. I won't touch new guitars. Too many shortcuts taken and too many snake oil salesmen out there selling tonewoods and tap tuning, not to mention guys who take down payments and take months or even years to deliver. And there's no guarantee a new guitar won't have the same issues though I guess you get some sort of warranty.

I don't want to have to mess with paypal or CC disputes. If the seller is reputable, they give you a reasonable evaluation period against serious issues like neck twisting, loose braces, etc. I can see someone not wanting to refund a guitar just because the buyer didn't like it but if there is something seriously wrong and it's documentable by a reputable repairman, there should be some agreed upon recourse. If the seller won't agree to that, then he's hiding something IMO.

[rlrhett]

I know for some there is no option. They live far from any reasonable market. For them I say I'm sorry. But if it is at all an option I wouldn't even consider buying a guitar off the internet without having played it first. There is simply no substitute to playing an instrument for an hour or two to know if it's worth owning.


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[Guitarbean25]

Flip side to this are fussy buyers...they'll return guitars for the smallest imperfection after all has been disclosed and discussed...and I'm talking to exhaustion. The problem is that if the guitar is damaged during shipping, a whole other can of worms has been opened. I try to minimize all travel time.

I try to disclose all that I can see and feel. If it's a question of tone or anything else...I won't do a return. I figure I take the same risk as a used buyer.

[2bornot2bop]

The CC and PayPal are buyers insurance. Talk is cheap. You asked advice about those who've done it on line. To not avail yourself of CC protection in this day and age of Internet sales is only inviting problem purchases, imo.

[MaxTwang]

And PayPal Gift option gives a buyer no protection. Use regular PayPal.

I had a recent eBay purchase that arrived damaged due to poor packing. I told the seller I'd keep the item if he paid for repairs - I was offered 50% of the repair cost. I filed an eBay dispute and eBay found in my favor in 11 minutes. If something arrives damaged take pics of everything and only communicate in writing, and be honest and keep calm when you write the other party.

[Danny W.]

The problem with buying only guitars that you can audition first is that you're limited to a small local sample out of all the guitars available. If I had limited my buying to guitars within a reasonable driving distance, I would never have owned any of my best and favorite guitars. Out of the more than 225 guitars I've owned, only a relative few showed up in a local sale or at a dealer who I might have visited on a business trip.

I'd much rather play a guitar at home, evaluating it in a quiet place with known acoustics and amplification than in most dealers shops I've ever visited, especially since I can first set it up the way I like it. I've rejected around 100 guitars over the years, almost always for improper descriptions (it's amazing how many dealers can't measure scale length, nut width or depth at the rim accurately,) but I found many outstanding guitars along the way that I never would have otherwise.

Danny W.

[agentsmith]

The CC and PayPal are buyers insurance. Talk is cheap. You asked advice about those who've done it on line. To not avail yourself of CC protection in this day and age of Internet sales is only inviting problem purchases, imo.

I never said I wouldn't use AMX and paypal. I'm just talking about getting an agreement up-front to avoid having to file a dispute.

[travisty]

I have been extraordinarily lucky in my time to only have purchased from good people/merchants, and have never had a serious problem with what was sold to me (i.e. disagreed with its representation upon arrival, etc), and that goes for a half dozen guitars and literally a thousand+ other purchases online over the last 10+ years (I renovated/rebuilt an old house using items mostly found online, and I have an art collection (vintage items) where the items are so dispersed physically, online buying is the only possible way to accumulate).

That said, unless I am very advantaged by price (vis-a-vis the item), I will always ensure that I have a backup (system, CC, etc).

I would, of course, not hesitate to buy another guitar (or most anything used) online under the right circumstances.

[vinlander]

My take on this is buying online is it requires knowledge, involves asking the right questions, hoping to get the right answers and target offers where there is a possibility of refund or exchange.
Yes Paypal on goods and services and CC protection is mandatory for me, I don't care if I need to pay the 3% PP fees the seller is asking...
Most of my guitars were bought in person and the only exception to this is ironically my most expensive guitar.
When I got my Tal last summer, one of the main reason that made me take the plunge was from who I was buying from. I knew how fussy and critic the guy is (with legitimate reasons) and I knew he had travelled 2 hours and bought it after test driving it.
I knew there would be no major problem like tail raise, twisted neck and the overall instrument would be sounding great.
I still consider I took a gamble, but a calculated one, as the feel of the instrument could have had not met my expectations; wanting a dream guitar in the mind doesn't mean it will be a good matching once it happens...
Buying an expensive instrument online from a private sale and having it sent by Post involving 2 different post systems and the border can be very stressful moment, even more when a UPS broken headstock saga is ongoing at the same time...
Everything turned out perfect and I highly doubt I would have found such a deal around Montreal I could have test drive before...

[meehaja]

Ive sold a few online and i hate it. Nothing but trouble. Every guitar i sell i describe as well as possible, but I'd much rather meet face to face, discuss condition, haggle as appropriate than deal with email arguing over points that i can't deal with from 300 miles away. If I'm buying long distance then I'm having a road trip!

[Top of the Arch!]

Ive bought and sold hundreds of guitars online and have had problems with only one. As a seller I used to give a 72 hour window for returns. Over the years Ive had guitars returned with replaced parts , and damage that happened while in the hands of the buyer . Try proving someone replaced the switchtip on a vintage Gibson or replaced the bumblebee caps with new ones!!! Trial period no more! Needless to say its up to the seller to give accurate copy along with clear pics. Also, the buyer has to be honest. I dont own a single guitar that was bought locally, all were bought online, Ive been fortunate so far. Bob

[JazzNote]

For me no way to buy a used guitar without the return option. Usually it's agreed that the buyer pays the shipping cost, this should be enough guarantee to the seller that the buyers intentions are good. I feel that the risk has to be shared, without the return option it is on the buyers side only.

[QAman]

I've also purchased many guitars online. I insist on speaking with the seller and asking numerous questions and getting a feel for things. If a seller is evasive or misleading in the slightest bit, I pass. Thorough communication is paramount along with instincts - and some good luck. I've scored some amazing guitars - and so far all good experiences.
As Danny mentioned - I would have never found these pcs in local stores.

[BigMikeinNJ]

​I would never buy a guitar without PayPal or CC protection, sorry... A few times a guitar just didn't work for me and eventually some lucky kid got their first dream guitar out of the blue. I've bought hundreds of guitars, most all of them online and had very good luck. BUT in some cases I contact the seller and ask them to call - if the photos aren't the best or I have a lot of questions - I like hearing the person's voice and gauging their maturity by the interaction I had with them. I have made a lot of friends that I still have in my life by talking to a seller. Bob, aka Top Of The Arch being one of them...

[helios]

As a secondary blanket of protection (aside form PayPal or CC as a method of payment), I pay attention to seller ratings.
I won't buy form someone unless they have a >99% positive feedback rating & many, many transactions (I prefer 100% positive feedback, but recognize occasional outlier). I also evaluate the content of the seller's previous transactions to see that they are or reasonable value. I've had good luck so far!

[jbucklin]

As a secondary blanket of protection (aside form PayPal or CC as a method of payment), I pay attention to seller ratings.
I won't buy form someone unless they have a >99% positive feedback rating & many, many transactions (I prefer 100% positive feedback, but recognize occasional outlier). I also evaluate the content of the seller's previous transactions to see that they are or reasonable value. I've had good luck so far!

There's a way to do online transactions and you've nailed it. I've bought and sold online since the 90s and have never had a problem. Like anything else, experience and good old fashioned street smarts go a long way. Most folks are not in the business of ripping people off and therefore one should not assume that all online transactions are to be avoided. SELLER RATINGS! best insurance there is.

[hot ford coupe]

Personally I don't touch vintage guitars, as there's too much more that can potentially be wrong with them that I know nothing about. But I'd like to own one.

You're right about that. I haven't bought a guitar in years, new or vintage, but the only way I would do either over the net would be to scope out only very reputable dealers who do give liberal trial periods and who describe their guitars well and with a lot of detailed pictures. In the last 25 years, I've only bought sight unseen from 2 dealers, Gruhn and Mandolin Brothers. Unless you've really researched the vintage guitar world, I would stay with all the stuff you've been buying. From what I've seen of your collection, you really won't see much in a vintage guitar that out performs what you already have. I bought vintage guitars for the history rather than a particular tone. I had a 1943 Epiphone Emperor which was just like one of the guitars Carmen Maestren (spelling?) played while a sergeant in the Glenn Miller Band during the war. I sold that a long time ago because it was very uncomfortable to play and I couldn't alter it in any way or it would lose its value. That's a huge disadvantage with a vintage instrument. Thank goodness I was able to sell it at a higher price than I paid for it.

[entresz]

I had a 1943 Epiphone Emperor which was just like one of the guitars Carmen Maestren (spelling?) played while a sergeant in the Glenn Miller Band during the war. I sold that a long time ago because it was very uncomfortable to play and I couldn't alter it in any way or it would lose its value. That's a huge disadvantage with a vintage instrument. Thank goodness I was able to sell it at a higher price than I paid for it.

I love Glenn Miller ... in fact it's what hooked me on to jazz and swing music. Do you have any photos of that guitar? I bet it would have some stories to tell.

[Naquat]

I agree with a lot of the posts. Paypal can be a lifesaver. I purchased an amp chassis a few years ago (not on this site and the seller shall remain nameless). After waiting about 2 weeks longer than the seller said it should take I contacted him via email, no response. I then read a few posts that others were having problems with the same seller who had a great product but not so great customer service. I responded by simply sending an inquiry through Paypal. The seller didn't like it but I got my chassis within a week.

Years ago, before Paypal and Feebay had the protection clause and you were pretty much on your own using feebay I purchased a guitar. The pics were NOT great but the write up was including verbiage that the guitar was in "exemplary" condition.

Well, when I received the guitar it was pretty beat up so I contacted the seller wanting to return the guitar. He told me it was an "As Is" sale to which I responded that his write up didn't match the description of the guitar. To me this was mail fraud which I said was covered under US Postal reg's even for UPS, DHL, FedEx etc.

The seller responded saying that I shouldn't make threats I couldn't keep and asked that I look at the bottom of his reply which showed the law firm he worked for. This *&(^ thought he was going to walk because I would be scarred off.

LOL….I jumped on it. I told him "Great" I'll take the copy I have of your write up, get 2 estimates of the guitar's condition from 2 different music stores, knowing neither would call the condition "exemplary", and then take that info and send it to his local Law Board and ask them what they think of one of their own committing mail fraud over the internet and over State lines. I got a full refund the next day. LOL I'm always fair and honest with buyers. I don't' sell or buy a lot as I've got only about 150 transactions for various products over 10 years, but I also don't take crap from dirtbags either.

Sorry for the long note…but…YES…Paypal protection can be your friend as well as asking a lot of questions and using a bit of logic if needed.

[Top of the Arch!]

I agree with a lot of the posts. Paypal can be a lifesaver. I purchased an amp chassis a few years ago (not on this site and the seller shall remain nameless). After waiting about 2 weeks longer than the seller said it should take I contacted him via email, no response. I then read a few posts that others were having problems with the same seller who had a great product but not so great customer service. I responded by simply sending an inquiry through Paypal. The seller didn't like it but I got my chassis within a week.

Years ago, before Paypal and Feebay had the protection clause and you were pretty much on your own using feebay I purchased a guitar. The pics were NOT great but the write up was including verbiage that the guitar was in "exemplary" condition.

Well, when I received the guitar it was pretty beat up so I contacted the seller wanting to return the guitar. He told me it was an "As Is" sale to which I responded that his write up didn't match the description of the guitar. To me this was mail fraud which I said was covered under US Postal reg's even for UPS, DHL, FedEx etc.

The seller responded saying that I shouldn't make threats I couldn't keep and asked that I look at the bottom of his reply which showed the law firm he worked for. This *&(^ thought he was going to walk because I would be scarred off.

LOL….I jumped on it. I told him "Great" I'll take the copy I have of your write up, get 2 estimates of the guitar's condition from 2 different music stores, knowing neither would call the condition "exemplary", and then take that info and send it to his local Law Board and ask them what they think of one of their own committing mail fraud over the internet and over State lines. I got a full refund the next day. LOL I'm always fair and honest with buyers. I don't' sell or buy a lot as I've got only about 150 transactions for various products over 10 years, but I also don't take crap from dirtbags either.

Sorry for the long note…but…YES…Paypal protection can be your friend as well as asking a lot of questions and using a bit of logic if needed.

This is the kind of stuff that ruins a good thing for everybody. I used to sell on Ebay until the fees got outrageous , in 7 years I had 100% pos. feedback. With the exception of a guy who contacted me thru one of the LP forums asking if I could find him a new lefty Gibson R9. I did and at a great price, sent him many photos and then he says for me to put it on Ebay and he will buy it!! Ok, not a huge deal as the fees werent too bad at the time, he buys it ,gets it then tries to say it was shopworn and had many small scratches etc. which was total BS but would be Ok with it if I kicked him back a few hundred $ so as not to leave neg. feedback. I told him to stuff it in a nice way and I got my first Neg feedback. Fast foward 6 months and hes got the guitar back on ebay selling it as MINT unplayed zero scratches etc! As already mentioned, talking to someone on the phone is a really good way to feel out a seller/buyer. Theres always going to be THAT guy out there. The one guitar I got screwed on was in the past month , I took the word of the "reputable "dealer and wound up with egg on my face. Bob

[agentsmith]

if a seller doesn't offer an eval period, he's hiding something. End of story.

[Top of the Arch!]

Not true but I understand your point. Bob