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With so many millions of players using strats, teles and others, I think that clearly illustrates that dollar cost has nothing to do with playability.
I too have some strats, teles, and "lesser" gits, and just do not play them as well as Gibson guitars.
In general I agree with Joe D about the 175 but would add "if you get a good one"
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07-11-2016 10:06 AM
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To the OP, why "practice" on one guitar and then "play" on another? Why not do both on one instrument? Surely switching instruments introduces problems even if they are the same scale length. Or maybe I misunderstood your post.
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It's setup, plus a few things that kind of amount to luck...string spacing, neck shape, stuff you either like or don't. Cost has nothing to do with it.
Also important to note, my dream setup may not be yours.
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I made a decision recently that since I'm not a "master" musician, I needed the nicest guitar(s) I could afford. A master can make any piece of junk sound great.
Me, I need help from the instrument. I need the great feeling, the inspiration, the looks, the set-up, the solid feel, the tone... and thought I can't quantify it, I get that feeling from my Gibsons (165, 175), from an Aria PE180, and from Epiphone Elitist Broadway. They all have that convergence of qualities that bring out the best in my admittedly elementary playing.
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I'm sorry Mr. Beaumont, I was replying to the first entry which I found at the top of the page, a member called Also Ran who I assumed to be the thread starter. As you may have noticed, I'm new to this forum and obviously have a bit to learn about it yet.
Thanks for your reply.
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Fole, I do not think Mr. B was responding to your post. Usually, someone will hit the "reply with quote" button if they are trying to do that (as I did here).
Originally Posted by fole
Welcome to the forum!
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Thanks! I think I realised that after I'd responded. I recieved an e-mail from the forum saying that Mr. Beaumont had responded to the thread leaving me to believe it was my post being referred to. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Again,thankyou for your clarification, I'm sure I'll enjoy it here.
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I've had similar experiences where playing a really nice instrument improves my playing, and there's something about really great guitars that makes them "sing" and play themselves in a way that allows you to play beyond what you normally could. But, I've played plenty of super nice guitars where the terrible set up was the equivalent of driving a Ferrari with flat tires. A 1934 Snakehead D'A that was set up with shredder-low action and wimpy strings barely able to excite the top comes to mind - bare in mind the perfect set up for a guitar isn't necessarily the "easiest" to play, and some degree of string tension and action can be required to make it "sing" (though as discussed here many, many times, heavier is not always better).
Between two guitars (one normal guitar, and one great) with the same ideal set up, the fact that a great one will sing even more will definitely make it feel even better. But, how often is the comparison apples-to-apples?
For the longest time I couldn't find a vintage archtop that sounded better than my 2004 Eastman 16" non-cut, because it seemed like every vintage guitar I came across played like crap. Plenty of fretting out, corroded strings that hadn't been replaced in years, even on $3k+ vintage guitars, and even the ones with out plainly defective set ups were rarely set up to sound "good" - i.e. an acoustic archtop needs a bit of action and tension to drive the top, so shredder-low action and light strings just sound dead.
Anyway, I've definitely found places since then with great playing vintage guitars, but what really was an eye-opener was finding a tech who could set up my guitars to suit the guitar and match my playing. My ideal set up has some reasonably high action, a bit of relief, and decently heavy strings (especially bumping up the high E and B strings one or two gauges), but there's a sweetspot where the top is properly driven, especially when I really dig in, but playability is maintained. All of my guitars are now excellent to play, but do I play better on my '32 L-5 than anything else I have? Yeah, I do. There's something effortless about making it speak, more so than any of the other perfectly nice guitars sitting right next to it.
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Everything that Mr B said PLUS actual strings. The gauge, the material, the tension...all make a huge difference. I was about to give up on a really nice MIK Epi Dot...tried my favorite two string sets, DR Pure Blues pure nickle strings and D'addarrio Chromes flatwounds...nothing was floating my boat. So, I got it ready for putting up for sale, did a good cleaning, strung it up with a set of NYXL 10-52's...wow, it just came to life. Needless to say, it is now in my rotation.
Strings are more important than a lot of us consider, or allow in our sound and feel profiles. I will run the gamut from 9's to 12's, plus for some reason I just bought a pack of Rev Willie's 7's...might put them on a hardtail Strat I have, but do not be afraid of trying a boatload of strings.
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Let that be 3 of us. Originally Posted by citizenk74
The Gibson ES-175 (IMO) is a highly evolved, very practical musical instrument. As it is produced in some numbers, individual examples may vary within a range. It sounds to me like you have found one that suits you to a "T"; i.e., 'a good 'un." That makes, to my certain knowledge, at least two of us. I suspect there are thousands of us, as well as countless others who feel the same way about particular instruments. It's a blessing. Enjoy!
I picked up a VOS 1959 ES175 from Chicago Music Exchange this spring, and with a very small amount of set-up (cranking the bridge up a little on one end) it has become an ultra-special guitar. I also have an ES165 bought on this forum, and it's splendid. A jewel. Both just have that "together" feel that everyone who loves Gibson knows about.
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I lean heavily into the camp that believes that a there's nothing like a high quality guitar when it is set up according to your taste and needs ..... ease of playability and great tone combine to create an inspirational experience
That said ... the better makers don't always hit a home run .... some Gibsons are not as good as the others and I suspect the same is true for some Benedettos and Campellones and other top name guitars
And sometimes the magic happens in mid level and even cheaper guitars
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"Playability" is the most important thing I look for in a guitar. To me, it means one thing: is the guitar easy for me to play? The best guitars allow me to forget all about what instrument I'm playing and just express myself.
Notice I said "easy for me to play". I have a good friend who does all the setups for one of the major high-end guitar dealers, who is also an extremely accomplished player. I don't very much like playing his guitars, nor he mine. (of course, we've both been playing a long time and are kind of picky about our instruments). A good setup is a personal thing, once you take care of the obvious technical requirements.
I don't think it necessarily correlates with price, I have noticed that there are some guitars that just don't feel right, even after they've been set up as well as possible. Somebody else might love them, though!
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OP - We just "connect" with some guitars. The 175 has a fast neck and a short scale and may suit you particularly well. Sound is subjective so what you are hearing obviously appeals to you. With a talented set-up guy and some cash, any guitar can be made to play well mechanically. But in this case, the 175 found you and there is no way to predict when or where it happens, but you know it when it does. Looks like you have a guitar to purchase!!
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A 175 is THE jazz guitar.
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Unfortunately, a lot of my practice is away from the home, before work and during lunch so the Traveler Speedster allows me to lug a guitar in without "making a spectacle," as my boss would say. Originally Posted by fole
At home, for years, I kept the ES175 protected in its case and opted for leaving out the Sheraton II for those rare moments that I might have to practice. I need a minimum of an hour to allow for proper warm-up and I just did not have that hour to spare for many years.
Also, I did not want to take the ES-175 out with me to play with friends - I preferred the Sheraton, since I play Jazz and string-bending Blues on it. And I really thought it was a great player until I sat down with the ES-175 and found that I could much more easily play songs that I struggled with on my other guitars.
Your idea is wise, however. I am leaving that Gibson out now and will choose it when I am playing Jazz. It is strung up with 13's, which are to thick for bending (at least for me).
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I would also add that there is a difference between at home playing unplugged and gigging. The better archtops tend to have better unplugged tone (generalization, obviously). The OP said that is what he mostly did.
If you play quietly unplugged and it sounds like jazz, you're going to be more inspired. If it sounds like someone playing a cigar box, not so much. I am like the OP. A home player who loves to play but feeds my kids doing something else. I had much the same experience as the OP fifteen years ago. The better the acoustic tone, the better I played and practiced at home. I just couldn't be inspired playing a Strat unplugged. I've been on a fairly obsessive quest for the best ACOUSTIC jazz box ever since.
If you are gigging, you are mostly listening to the amp and pickups. Whatever color the resonant body of an archtop adds vs a solid body is often dwarfed by the amp, or differences in pickups, or the room dynamics. What is important is good setup, a great fret job, and good electronics.
Again, obviously a gross generalization. However, I share the OP's experience of being inspired by nicer guitars and also his apparent playing/practicing experience. I also have pro gigging friends who are much less impressed with the expensive guitars and rave about their mid grade Aisian or Tele or whatever.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Having realized this and having realized that I have a massive problem with guitars, I'm selling-off almost all of my collection (about forty) and keeping just a few really good guitars. For the most part, the $3000 guitar really does play much better than the $1000 guitar. Mr. Wu might be an exception.
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I would also put in a word for the Made-in-Japan "lawsuit" type archtops: the Ibanez, Greco, Aria, Memphis, Bradley... typically made in the 1970s at the Matsumoku plant. These guitars are really outstanding and have much the same feeling, playability, and sound as guitars costing twice as much or more. I also really like the Epiphone Elite/Elitist line, and have a Broadway of that DNA that is just exquisite. One of the few guitars I've ever acquired that needed absolutely nothing done to it: neck, frets, pickups, electronics, everything seems just superb. But again, this and those 1970's MIJ archtops are not $1000 guitars... but they are not $3500+ guitars either.
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If you don't have very good amp ! How can you hear ( Compare ) the different
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ime
the L5 CES is in a league of its own
i prefer it both plugged and unplugged to the wes and even the p
it is deader and darker than its two cousins and this works much better for my mainstream needs - and it makes other types of guitar seem very unappealing
don't get one if you want to keep buying guitars - once you get one the whole guitar thing starts to fade. you start to forget about the instrument that is.
it has considerably better playability even than the incredible little gb 10. i thought the gb 10 would be more 'friendly' than the enormous L5. it is not. because the response is not as satisfying the guitar does not feel as playable - despite having the best neck in the business (by all accounts).
its obvious that it is not just the neck and the frets that make the L5 feel so playable - its the whole thing. you can't relax playing a guitar the sound of which does not satisfy you - so playability and sound are closely connected.
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Okay, we all know you're a fanboy Originally Posted by Groyniad
But "sound" and "playability" are subjective. I owned a CES that didn't sound nearly as good as my first, so it got sold. Every guitar has a different tonal characteristic, and it's not carte blanche that a Gibson will beat all comers just because its a Gibson.
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