Heritage Johnny Smith

**medblues** · 06-18-2017, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

A couple thoughts:

The size of the f-holes (or any sound hole) influences to the natural Helmholz resonance of the "box" (volume). Larger holes will raise the Helmholz resonance.
Top thickness needs to be evaluated together with the arch radius (shape) and recurve shape and graduation. The stiffness is tied thickness, shape (e.g. a flatter radius will be less stiff) and cross-grain stiffness of the spruce billet used.
The bridge mass, down pressure and rim depth all can influence bass response as well.

How does the Helmholtz resonance affect whether the acoustic sound is warmer or brighter ? Or whether the guitar produces louder frequencies ? If MG is upset with me for diverting the thread, I can delete and take it to another thread but my aim in asking is to understand my Heritage Johnny Smith (in my avatar photo) better.

**iim7V7IM7** · 06-20-2017, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by medblues

How does the Helmholtz resonance affect whether the acoustic sound is warmer or brighter ? Or whether the guitar produces louder frequencies ? If MG is upset with me for diverting the thread, I can delete and take it to another thread but my aim in asking is to understand my Heritage Johnny Smith (in my avatar photo) better.

Helmholz resonance can affect undesired top resonances creating wolf tones at certain points on the fingerboard. In general (key phrase), larger f-holes will raise the frequency of these (e.g. instead of finding one at F#, you might find it at Ab etc.). In general, smaller f-holes will have increased bass presence but their size cannot be divorced from the top, its bracing, the back caarve and and the body volume (it is a complex acoustic system). Archtops compared to flat tops already have a high main air pitch due to the way the f-holes work.

In regard to what affects euphonic aspects of tone such as "warmth" or "brighter" many, many things in your guitars materials, design and construction can. A combination of many small elements can contribute to these. One player's "warmth" is another's "mushiness" and another players "bright" can be another's "lack of bass". Impressions of sound are complex...

Hope that helps

**Marty Grass** · 06-20-2017, 02:50 PM

I'm taking the guitar to Pete Moreno to drop fill the scratches and buff it out. Heritage generally won't do that stuff unless it's warranty work, although they agreed to in this case. But I really don't feel comfortable with them, sad to say.

The supervisor who went over the guitar with me started out by saying it would be best to refinish the whole thing so that the finish matches everywhere. I pointed out that the stain on maple never fully matches when applied to spruce.

He mentioned replacing the top. I told him that's not happening.

He was considering just refinishing the top but was worried that sanding it may make it too thin. I assured him that wouldn't happen if the least amount of care were used.

Finally I told him I expected the scratches to simply be drop filled. He was concerned that his team didn't do such things and he wasn't sure of the results.

To be fair, the supervisor seemed to consider everything seriously and he was very attentive. But we decided Pete Moreno should do this.

Honestly, if this wasn't a new purchase for me, I'd leave it as is. The marks are minor and very easily fully corrected. I needed to bring the guitar in to resolder the pickup, so the trip wasn't wasted. Actually, it was interesting to see this new approach to fixing things.

**Max405** · 06-20-2017, 04:58 PM

Plus, You have an absolute genious of luthier at your side in Pete.
He is on a Par with a younger Ronaldo Orlandoni. I'm sorry to all you young whipper-snappers, but they don't make them like these guys any more. When they get too old, they still do an amazing job, they just miss things and they take forever because of the frequent trips to go pee and they take nap's very often..
I cant wait till this is done. You are gonna be doing cartwheels MG!

Joe D.

**Max405** · 11-13-2017, 01:29 PM

I jumped to conclusions with this guitar. TOTALLY!
After a proper setup, its the best guitar I've ever played in my life.
After a conversation with QAman, I learned a lot. It starts at the nut. The existing nut was not cut properly. Both E strings were cut way too low. The B string was cut too low. So rather than build it up, My luthier replaced it entirely. He cut it low enough to "just" clear the 1st couple of frets. This allowed him to setup the guitar with action typical of my Gibson Johnny Smith and most of the L5's I've played. He leveled the frets and crowned and polished them. Fretted notes feel exactly the same from the 1st fret all the way up to the 17th. The lowest action I've ever experienced with absolutely NO Fret buzz. He also re-cut the bridge saddle so its radius matched the radius of the fretboard. He also reshaped the bridge base so 100% of it came in contact with the top of the guitar. Before he said it was at 85%. Now the guitar plays better than any other guitar I've ever touched. It is clear and incredibly responsive. Its not a Buick Roadmaster. It is a Panamera Turbo now. The big girl flies!
As for the sound..
My Luthier rewired the entire guitar. He agreed that the wiring Heritage used was a joke. So he used breaded wire where he was able to. He replaced the jack because the existing crappy jack had begun to fail because the spacer between hot and ground began to compress. He ground off all the anodizing under the tailpiece and connected the ground wire to a piece of copper tape that is now sandwiched between the Tailpiece and the rim. We now have proper ground. However, the "South coil" on the Heritage #3 humbucker is dead. So the pickup is only functioning as a single coil. But because re-wiring is so perfectly done, I hear absolutely no noise at all now. And the clarity of the guitar is crisp and 100%. I will use the pickup for a while the way it is. Eventually I will replace it. But it sounds just fine the way it is now.

The moral of the story..
I know, from now on before I jump to conclusions about a guitar, I will know the facts. And I am not capable of tweaking my own setup. My Luthier is a magician. He will be the only one who touches my guitars from now on.
Speaking of my Luthier, When I went to pickup my guitar he went over everything he did on the guitar in great detail. Then while it was laying on the bench, he plugged it in and ran his fingers across all the strings. We just listened. He said, "Joe, do you hear that"? He said, "THAT is the best sounding guitar I've ever heard in my LIFE"!!
I agree..
Guys, after a proper setup - Ive done a complete 180 on this guitar. It is absolutely the best guitar I've ever owned.
I will be dedicating some recording time to it this upcoming weekend.

Joe D

**Frank67** · 11-13-2017, 01:35 PM

Totally relate to that! I always bring my guitars to a luthier. With my Heritage Super eagle I had an experience almost 100% mirroring yours :-) glad you like it so much! You already sounded absolutely great on it as it was

**BigMikeinNJ** · 11-13-2017, 01:49 PM

Glad it is working out so well for you Joe. I DID find what I think is the same pickup you need in that box that had Hammertone's Super Patrick acoustic pick guard... Let me know when you want the pickup.

Enjoy yourself paisan...

Big

**Marty Grass** · 11-13-2017, 02:01 PM

I love happy endings.

The Floating #3 on my HJS broke during shipment. A friend, Rhoadsscholar, was kind enough to give me one that he had but never used. I had that installed. It was weak with a hum. I recently got the guitar back from someone who built a pickup for it. He said that the one he pulled off my guitar was operating on only one coil also and couldn't be repaired. The new pickup sounds good but I can't give a full report due to my very recent shoulder surgery.

Joe mentioned the grounding on his HJS. That can be troublesome due to the black plating. What I've often had to do is pull the tailpiece off and grind the black off of the plate that comes in contact with the ground wire. Also, the ground wire is commonly embedded in the wood due to chronic pressure from the plate. I move the wire and make sure there is plenty of exposed copper to make contact.

The next issue is that the strings may not be fully grounded due to the black plating on the finger hooks that hold the balls. Those hooks often need to be denuded.

Someone once told me that guitars usually leave the factory half done. There's some truth there. It also seems that they are never done.

Joe's guitar has been played by some amazing artists, I'm sure. Don Dean was known to host many jam sessions with Nashville's finest. Don did much of his own guitar work. Despite that, there was still room for improvement.

But that's done with now. It's time to enjoy.

**Stringswinger** · 11-13-2017, 02:19 PM

Congrats JD! The Kent Armstrong Johnny Smith PUP that was installed on the HDA sure sounds good (as your youtube recordings so amply show). Perhaps that is the route you should go. After all, for you all things Johnny Smith (Pat Martino once told me that Johnny Smith was HIS all time favorite guitarist) is the ticket.

**QAman** · 11-13-2017, 02:46 PM

Joe,
Glad the set up made a difference. You can now focus on the music - rather than being distracted by guitar issues.

**Max405** · 11-13-2017, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Totally relate to that! I always bring my guitars to a luthier. With my Heritage Super eagle I had an experience almost 100% mirroring yours :-) glad you like it so much! You already sounded absolutely great on it as it was

Frankie, I learned my lesson big time. I wanted to get this post up so I could correct my assumptions and not sour anyone on buying a Heritage Guitar. Its all in the nut. Heritages electronics suck too. But, you take the good with the bad.
You know, I've never seen a Heritage Guitar with finish checking... Mmmm...

Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ

Glad it is working out so well for you Joe. I DID find what I think is the same pickup you need in that box that had Hammertone's Super Patrick acoustic pick guard... Let me know when you want the pickup.
Enjoy yourself paisan...
Big

Thank you Mikey. You've done more than enough for me. I'm good for now. I actually like the way the pickup sounds. And I will have this guitar forever so I don't need to fix the pickup for somebody else.
You are an Angel..

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

I love happy endings.
The Floating #3 on my HJS broke during shipment. A friend, Rhoadsscholar, was kind enough to give me one that he had but never used. I had that installed. It was weak with a hum. I recently got the guitar back from someone who built a pickup for it. He said that the one he pulled off my guitar was operating on only one coil also and couldn't be repaired. The new pickup sounds good but I can't give a full report due to my very recent shoulder surgery.
Joe mentioned the grounding on his HJS. That can be troublesome due to the black plating. What I've often had to do is pull the tailpiece off and grind the black off of the plate that comes in contact with the ground wire. Also, the ground wire is commonly embedded in the wood due to chronic pressure from the plate. I move the wire and make sure there is plenty of exposed copper to make contact.
The next issue is that the strings may not be fully grounded due to the black plating on the finger hooks that hold the balls. Those hooks often need to be denuded.
Someone once told me that guitars usually leave the factory half done. There's some truth there. It also seems that they are never done.
Joe's guitar has been played by some amazing artists, I'm sure. Don Dean was known to host many jam sessions with Nashville's finest. Don did much of his own guitar work. Despite that, there was still room for improvement.
But that's done with now. It's time to enjoy.

I didn't think about the anodizing on the fingers. So just called Brian and he said, "yeah I took care of that.. I told you that when you were here.." too much for me to remember.
I am thrilled to have this guitar. And I am glad I was patient and didn't do something stupid. Thanks MG.

Originally Posted by citizenk74

Great news, Joe! Happiness is a fine guitar set up to perfection. Very much looking forward to new recordings!

Thanks C74. The guitar is a treat. For sure.

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Congrats JD! The Kent Armstrong Johnny Smith PUP that was installed on the HDA sure sounds good (as your youtube recordings so amply show). Perhaps that is the route you should go. After all, for you all things Johnny Smith (Pat Martino once told me that Johnny Smith was HIS all time favorite guitarist) is the ticket.

SS,
You know, this guitar did not have the same playability as my first 2 HJS's and it was NO WHERE near your HDA. All the ingredients were there but something was missing and I couldn't figure out why. ..
The crazy thing is, I played my 165 for 4 days straight before I picked up the HJS18 from the shop. My 165 is an astroglide smooth player and I was worried that nothing anyone could do would make the HJS18 compare. I was not expecting it to feel so right. When I started playing it, I couldn't contain myself. The guitar is absolutely perfect. And it has actually surpassed all my other guitars, because it covers all the bases. Playability, Sound, That regal feel and last but not least.. The Rose and Johnny's hand Signature next to my heart when I am holding it..
This guitar is everything.

Thanks guys.
JD

**rob taft** · 11-13-2017, 05:55 PM

Joe, Do you still swap out the TI E string on this guitar?

**neatomic** · 11-13-2017, 06:07 PM

nice joe D! and sounds like a great luthier.. he got it right from top to bottom...all the right tweaks & fixings..that's the way you work a neck , every detail from nut to bridge base!!...bravo

and no more hum!!..time for some new vids!! haha

cheers

**Max405** · 11-13-2017, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by rob taft

Joe, Do you still swap out the TI E string on this guitar?

Ha! I was waiting for someone to ask this question.. The honest answer? Painfully... The swapped out high E was on the guitar when I dropped it off. And it was buzzing like crazy! Now, it doesn't buzz at all. So, it probably would work fine with the standard E that comes with the set. JD

Originally Posted by neatomic

nice joe D! and sounds like a great luthier.. he got it right from top to bottom...all the right tweaks & fixings..that's the way you work a neck , every detail from nut to bridge base!!...bravo
and no more hum!!..time for some new vids!! haha
cheers

I talked to his boss today. His boss told me he is the best they've had there in 20 years. He is a magician.
Thanks buddy!
JD

**Max405** · 11-18-2017, 12:03 PM

Hi Everyone,
Here is the video as promised.
This guitar is spectacular. Anyone can play it. It is a masterpiece of sound, workmanship and playability.
The crickets still show up now and then. The pickup will be changed out eventually, but I can live with it for now.
My plan for the day was to bring the guitar to the gravesite where Joe Pass is buried which is only 8 miles from my home, and play this for him. But the cold rainy weather did not cooperate. But Like Vinny says, Joe Pass is up in heaven with God right now. And I feel his spirit in me when I play.
Thank you everyone for the great times I have here with you.
Happy Holidays to everyone.
Joe DeNisco

**skykomishone** · 11-18-2017, 12:08 PM

Way to go Joe! Really loved this tribute. Sounds terrific, and inspires me to get the holiday tune book out, as well as listen to some Pass today! Thank you brother!

**BigMikeinNJ** · 11-18-2017, 12:32 PM

It really sounds great. It’s awesome to see the transition: from you liking it to having it so well set up for your personal feel you’re just a crazy man having a ball playing it !!!

Joyful Holidays Paisan

Big

**medblues** · 11-18-2017, 01:02 PM

No one commented so I will. What happened to your pick ? First time I see you playing without it. It definitely makes a difference.

**vinnyv1k** · 11-18-2017, 01:03 PM

Bro this is your crown jewel ! Very impressed with your right hand finger style. Some songs must be played with your fingers instead of a pick. JP could not do it better. I was watching your hands and it was just like watching JP play.
You hit your pinnacle of excellence. My wife watched it and said why can't you play nice and pretty like that. As you know she takes no prisoners. Bravo Bro ! OUTSTANDING rendition.

P.S. thank you for the G. My man

**Stringswinger** · 11-18-2017, 01:17 PM

Sweet JD. OK, you have the Gibson Johnny Smith and the Heritage Johnny Smith. When do you add the Guild Johnny Smith to the collection?

**johnnyjazz** · 11-18-2017, 02:21 PM

Very nice Joe, you should stick to fingerstyle, opens up a whoooooole new world.

**Bluedawg** · 11-19-2017, 01:30 AM

Very nice ...

Can you recommend a good place to get a transcription of that and any other JS Christmas arrangements?

I need to work up a few Christmas tunes myself

**Frank67** · 11-19-2017, 02:19 AM

Oh man Joe, that sounded awesome! That totally made my day. Masterful, authoritative playing and what a huge, beautiful sound that guitar has, absolutely incredible! (Incidentally, my wife made a similar comment to Vinny’s :-))

What do you find wrong with the pickup? It sounds really good to me - crisp, clear and balanced. Fixing the electronics did improve the sound of this already great sounding guitar (it was the exact same on my SE - pickup wrongly wired - sounded much better after my luthier fixed it. I hope these things have improved now at Heritage under the new ownership).

**Fred Archtop** · 11-19-2017, 03:59 AM

Sound? Terrific. All notes perfectly defined. Deeeeep basses and chiming high ends.
Dynamics? A lot. That's usually the weak point of a solo performance.
Sensitiveness? As much as in a Napolitan song.
Technical skills? Plenty, and tastely used to serve your sensitiveness.
Suit? Perfect match.

Thanks buddy to share this with us.

Have a wonderful Xmas.

**73Fender** · 11-19-2017, 09:57 AM

That was beautiful, thank you. What amp were you using?

I love that Heritage too. I have a few including a 575 I bought 10 years ago hoping to get into more jazz. One day when the demands of life are less (career and kids etc etc) I hope to be lucky enough to do so. For now I noodle around a little when time permits and I'll start to visit here more, great site.

I wasn't aware Joe's grave was in NJ, one day maybe a pilgrimage would be in order. I saw him once in a small room at Kean College during my short tenure as a music major there in 76 or so, incredible to say the least.