Gibson Johnny Smith Guitars From The Norlin Years

[JazzNote]

I have found this on a german site which is specialized on vintage instruments .......
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55 years ago, the Gibson Johnny Smith was introduced and this 25th anniversary edition is a historically significant guitar because it was made at a time when the Gibson company reached a turning point. In January 1986, Gibson was sold from Norlin to three enthusiasts Henry Juszkiewicz, David Berryman and Gary Zebrowski. The reputation of Gibson had been badly hurt during the Norlin era (late 1969 - 1986). Therefore, the year 1986 was very important in Gibson's long history and only through a recall and return to traditional standards of quality and the use of best tone woods, it was not only possible to gain back the confidence of customers but also to immediately improve the quality to a level comparabel with Kalamazoo's best just as this example shows us.
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What i'm wondering about is if there's any truth in the statement that 1986 was a year of change and if its safe to say that archtops were of better quality from then on. (there's a 1986 JS signed by Hutch for sale).

[Archtop Guy]

I have found this on a german site which is specialized on vintage instruments .......
____
55 years ago, the Gibson Johnny Smith was introduced and this 25th anniversary edition is a historically significant guitar because it was made at a time when the Gibson company reached a turning point. In January 1986, Gibson was sold from Norlin to three enthusiasts Henry Juszkiewicz, David Berryman and Gary Zebrowski. The reputation of Gibson had been badly hurt during the Norlin era (late 1969 - 1986). Therefore, the year 1986 was very important in Gibson's long history and only through a recall and return to traditional standards of quality and the use of best tone woods, it was not only possible to gain back the confidence of customers but also to immediately improve the quality to a level comparabel with Kalamazoo's best just as this example shows us.
____
What i'm wondering about is if there's any truth in the statement that 1986 was a year of change and if its safe to say that archtops were of better quality from then on. (there's a 1986 JS signed by Hutch for sale).

In 1986 the rep for gibson came in talking about the reissue L4c and I said I'll order if I can get #1.He said I could so I ordered a Heritage dark sunburst acoustic with a floating BJB pickup. I got the guitar 6 or 8 months later with the serial number 6001. It was a fabulous guitar with mahogany back and sides. I also bought an X braced quilted L5c. That went to one of our members here. Also fabulous. The work that Hutch was doing brought Gibsons reputation back to the top IMHO.Unfortunately the managements' business practices sucked.

[QAman]

Archtop guy,
I agree entirely with "Hutch period instruments " changing the perception of Gibson .....im sure Danny would agree as welI. I have an incredible Legrand from that period and its a lap piano ...- and has been a keeper.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

[guitarcarver]

Steve,
I know this is an older topic, but I have experience that may be of interest. I have what is most likely the last Kalamazoo made Johnny Smith from 1984. It has uncharacteristically highly figured woods with a beautiful dark burst. The Maple is of the Eastern variety as opposed to the modern Gibsons which have mostly been built with Western big leaf variety.
As far as quality goes, I have no issues with it at all. Even compared to a 1964 that I owned at the same time. I did note that the carving was slightly different on the under side of the top at the cutaway. Also, like Joe D. mentioned about his J.S. recently, it does have the lower fret height consistent with the era. The neck shape is great. It sounds fantastic.

I find it funny when people state that the woods from this period were inferior. Less figure has nothing to do with tone. Most of the back and sides used on the carved guitars were quarter sawn revealing a high content of Medullary rays. It may have been European Maple, or even Sycamore which is an Acer genus.

It's worth mentioning that Ron Affif played a Norlin era J.Smith, and Bireli Lagrene didn't seem to have an issue with his Super V.

The last Kalamazoo Gibson is owned by Marv Lamb. It's a gold top Les Paul. I'm going from memory, but my J.S. was built about 14 days before his guitar.

[Lizlassman]

Thanks Danny - beautiful guitars. I'm trying to determine the last year Johnny Smiths were produced at Kalamazoo under Norlin.

I purchased/ordered a Johnny Smith in late summer 1984 for my husbands birthday in October. When I went to the music store to pick it up the employees told me the Johnny Smith had arrived with a notification saying it was the last guitar made by Gibson Corp in Kalamazoo.
Needless to say I really wanted that notice... they said it was written on the packaging and didn’t keep it.
Sounded pretty shady to me. Why would they destroy the proof of that... considering they kept raving about how great it was for my husband to have the last guitar made by Gibson Corporation in Kalamazoo.
The timing is right and the guitar was prepaid so they had no reason to lie but I have no proof it is true.
I hope that helps answer your timeframe.

[floatingpickup]

I have owned many Gibsons from the 1930’s right up to recent Nashville and Memphis models. I have had good ones and bad ones from many different decades during that time. Interestingly, my two Norlin era L5CES’s were excellent (I still have one of them). I also had a Norlin ES-347 that was quite good.

My negative experiences were a 1968 “pencil neck” ES-335, a Bozeman J-200 that had a back-bow and a 2013 Memphis ES-335. The 335 looked great and played beautifully, but it had cracks in the neck binding and finish checks on the back. It also had very strange electronics and just sounded weird. On the other hand, I had a Memphis ES-165 that was perfect in every way, so nothing against Memphis Gibsons. Virtually all of the other Gibsons I have owned were great.

It is worth mentioning that I visited the Gibson factory a number of times during the Norlin era and the people I met there were very upbeat and proud of their work. They showed us some one-off custom guitars that they made in 1970 (acoustic non-cut L5’s and Super 400’s) and they were spectacular. They allowed my father to purchase one of those non-cut L5’s and it is still in our family today. I can honestly say that the sound, fit and finish of that guitar is as good as any I have ever experienced. I attached a picture of that guitar.

Keith

[Jimmy Mack]

1981 Norlin L5 CES owner here. Can't complain about anything on this guitar. Wish the frets were a bit taller, the volute's presence is totally unknown to me (I don't play "cowboy" chords on it). If anything, it adds strength where I think it is needed. Especially with heavy gauge strings!
I was not crazy about my mid 60's Johnny Smith at all. Sold it.

[Hammertone]

....It is worth mentioning that I visited the Gibson factory a number of times during the Norlin era and the people I met there were very upbeat and proud of their work. They showed us some one-off custom guitars that they made in 1970 (acoustic non-cut L5’s and Super 400’s) and they were spectacular. They allowed my father to purchase one of those non-cut L5’s and it is still in our family today. I can honestly say that the sound, fit and finish of that guitar is as good as any I have ever experienced. I attached a picture of that guitar. Keith

I had the pleasure of playing that guitar at one of the Murch Gibson days. I still remember the guitar - a really fantastic acoustic archtop.

[floatingpickup]

I had the pleasure of playing that guitar at one of the Murch Gibson days. I still remember the guitar - a really fantastic acoustic archtop.

Thanks Hammertone. It really is a good one and it was built in Kalamazoo during the early Norlin days. Other than the color, it is very much like an old L5, no volute, etc. I don’t have a picture of the back, but it has beautiful flamed maple. It also has very thin lacquer, which probably helps bring out the tone.
Keith

[Greentone]

That non-cut L-5 is a thing of beauty.

FWIW, the late-70s, early-80s L-5 guitars I have played have been quite nice guitars. F-5 mandolins, too.

I think the archtop folks were left alone to "do their thing" in K'zoo.

[BigMikeinNJ]

That would have been Jim Derloo, Aaron Cowles, Hutch, Marvin Lamb, JP Moats and Bill Paige to name a few of the monster talents woking in that era... WOW

Big

That non-cut L-5 is a thing of beauty.

FWIW, the late-70s, early-80s L-5 guitars I have played have been quite nice guitars. F-5 mandolins, too.

I think the archtop folks were left alone to "do their thing" in K'zoo.

[floatingpickup]

That non-cut L-5 is a thing of beauty.

FWIW, the late-70s, early-80s L-5 guitars I have played have been quite nice guitars. F-5 mandolins, too.

I think the archtop folks were left alone to "do their thing" in K'zoo.

Thanks Greentone. It has basically been unplayed since new, so it is mint. I had to replace the pickguard a few years ago because it was just starting to show a little film on the surface. I got it off before it affected the the guitar. Here is a picture of it after I installed the new guard. This picture shows the color a little more accurately than the first picture. I don’t mean to hijack the thread - I just want to point out that there were some nice guitars produced during the Norlin era.
Keith

[vinnyv1k]

Some of the best guitars I had were Norlin era. Jimmy D was adamant that non flamed maple sounded better but guys insisted on the stripes. Many dislike the volute but it makes the neck stronger. My new Campy has a volute. Not a issue with me. Yes you feel it on the 1st fret but big deal. As long as I have been playing Gibsons their QC has been a hit or miss regardless of the decade. 1990-2010 was a very good period though IMO.

[deacon Mark]

Some of the best guitars I had were Norlin era. Jimmy D was adamant that non flamed maple sounded better but guys insisted on the stripes. Many dislike the volute but it makes the neck stronger. My new Campy has a volute. Not a issue with me. Yes you feel it on the 1st fret but big deal. As long as I have been playing Gibsons their QC has been a hit or miss regardless of the decade. 1990-2010 was a very good period though IMO.

Bill Barker said the same thing and made a few plains because he was making them for himself. He usually did that thinking they would not sell too fast. Wrong he said sometimes it was only weeks. Watch those plain jaynes they know what to do.

[Woody Sound]

The shape looks slightly different than the early non-cut L5s. Less pronounced shoulders? Something else? Or is it just my imagination? (Runninnn away with me...)

[Greentone]

I think it's the angle of the photo.

[floatingpickup]

I think it's the angle of the photo.

My brother and I have some vintage non-cutaway versions to compare it to and its the same shape. As Greentone said, it’s the angle of the second photo. The first photo shows the shape a little better.
Keith

[Stringswinger]

Having owned Gibsons from the 60's through the present decade and having played Gibsons from the teens through the 50's, I can say with certainty that the guitars made during the Norlin era were of the same quality as any other era (this means that every year had it's share of duds as well as stellar guitars and everything in between). What I can say about the Norlin era was design changes that some may like and some may not. These include:

Volutes
Plain woods on premium models
Chrome vs. Nickel parts
14 degree pegheads
Pick shaped sunbursts
Bright toned pickups (T-Tops)
Plasticized headstock overlays
Maple necks instead of Mahogany on some Les Paul's and 175's
Laminated Mahogany sides and backs instead of laminated Maple on some 175's.
The use of heavier woods
Pancake construction on some Les Paul's

And in the era just before Norlin (1965-1969) there was the narrow nuts.

Choose any pre 1987 Gibson's according to taste.