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I don't know if you can equate nut-width-to-nut-width with nylon versus steel strings. Different beasts.
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06-27-2016 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
There is one available right now over at The Gear Page.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/ind...-l358.1719292/
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I never did any precise calculations but my thinking was that the 1 13/16 width (and that extra 1/8th was from bridge to nut) was roughly the equivalent of 1 7/8" on a nylon string guitar once you account for the added thickness of the strings. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Very interesting, Jim. Thanks. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Since you were obviously in this "market" (steel string guitars with nut width larger than 1.75 inches) what is your take on the seemingly very low demand here. I can see why/how there is a super limited market for steel string instruments that allow a smoother transition to classical guitars. But my "intermediate level guitarist" experience/instinct is that 1 11/16" is too narrow (near the nut) or at least is not optimum and 1/16 inch addition isn't much. When I am doing any number of chord shapes near the nut I find that I seem to have to be really careful/accurate to not touch adjacent strings (in the cases where I do no want to do that). I have done a LIMITED amount of internet research on this and can find no stated advantage for this width (vs. wider) other than "it makes strumming easier"(???). I am not even sure what that means but I have read it a couple of times.
OTOH, the guys who make money with their guitar, should care about 'not touching adjacent strings', and can afford to acquire whatever width nut/neck they want with no concern at all regarding resale value (or lack thereof), do not seem to care about this. So maybe I am all wrong here (and just need more practice, which is true regardless).
I'd be interested in your perspective on this. Thanks.
dave
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The gretsch chet Atkins 6122 1959 model has a 1.75", if memory serves. I want to say his elitist epiphone and possibly his Gibson models do, as well. But only the gretsch is fully hollow. The bigsby comes off and it is plenty useful for jazz sounds.
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I have a lovely Campellone 17 inch acoustic archtop with a 1 13/16 inch nut, which came from the same fellow. He has apparently had four Campellones built over the years. I've also played the one that Bluedawg got. Both wonderful guitars! Originally Posted by Bluedawg
Last edited by Hammertone; 06-30-2016 at 02:27 AM.
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The Fender Daquisto I have in the for sale section of this board also has a 1-13/16 wide nut
in the 1980s and 1990s Jimmy Daquisto often used a bit wider neck like that
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For those of you who have played both a 1 11/16" and 1 13/16" width (nut) guitar, what is your experience on the playability pluses and minuses between the two? Apparently there are a few out there.
Thanks.
dave
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I took a quick look at your collection (re: link in your sig) - WOW, that is really nice. Originally Posted by fws6
dave
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC
If I've been playing 1 11/16" guitars for a while the 1 13/16" feels kind of funny and takes a little getting used to
But the adjustment is fast for me .... I studied classical at my university while working on a degree in engineering ... I really think that training helps me adjust to various neck shapes, fingerboard widths, and scale lengths more easily than I would without that playing experience
I think the wider fingerboard helps with more complicated chord forms ... like the ones I learned playing Ted Greene's arrangement of Over The Rainbow .... it's easier to get the fingers where they need to be when they need to be there and makes it easier to avoid clams
There may be a speed advantage to the thinner fingerboard .... but not by much and while playing fast can be fun I don't think speed is that important
If you're going to maintain classical guitar as a big part of your playing getting a steel string with a wider fingerboard seems like a good idea ..... the catch is finding one without breaking your bank account
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I agree that "the wider fingerboard helps with more complicated chord forms .... it's easier to get the fingers where they need to be when they need to be there and makes it easier to avoid clams."
If you are a "thumb under" classical-technique player, the shape of the neck may not be super-important. As a "thumb-over" player, the neck shape and depth are as important to me as the neck width.
In general, anything under 1 11/16" is too narrow for my ham-fisted technique, and super-wide necks limit my incredible thumb-over technique. But give me a nice deep neck, please - fatback, boatneck, Nocaster, hysterical reissue Les Paul, whatever. They don't call me "The Butcher of the Strings" for nothing.
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Coming from a classical background I was sure I needed wider necks for better articulation when playing jazz but the cost is in the right hand. The reason you don't see many archtops wider than 1.75" is that strumming and picking start sounding funny. With regards to strumming it is typically preferred to have a strum that sounds unified (for lack of a better word). You want that "joosh" sound and with wider strings spacing it requires considerable more energy to strum across all 6 strings. Alternate picking is also more difficult. Even tiny differences in string spacing makes a huge difference. If you're ever considering using a pick to play jazz instead of your fingers I would seriously consider 1.75" at the nut. I know you mentioned there's not much spacing difference at the bridge end, and maybe I'm hyper-sensitive to spacing but I believe small differences are significant in how a guitar plays. Also, You might enjoy getting into a different headspace with a guitar other than your nylon. Sometimes different scale lengths and spacing illicit new musical ideas.
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I think it's a good thing to train your fingers to accomodate different neck dimensions. It's trickier at first, but as you get around, you get to the point where the mechanics are comfortable no matter the neck-width, after a minute or two. Now, I get the distaste for a neck that is too narrow for my fingers, and I've never owned a Tele because I've never found one with a neck I like -- but I think it's a good thing to be musical no matter the physical impositions of the neck, and strive for versatility, myself.
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When we first brought out the 1 13/16" spacing we also added the same 1/8" at the bridge. I referred to is as "Finger-style spacing" and in many ways I considered the extra width at the bridge to be more beneficial than the 1/8" at the nut. I go back and forth regularly between 1 13/16" and 1 11/16". They both work for me but I do notice a distinct difference with both hands. Originally Posted by BigToe
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While neither is completely hollow and both have Bigsby's the Gibson Chet Atkins Country Gentleman and the Gretsch G6122-59 Chet Atkins Country Gentleman both have 1 3/4" nut and 12" radius fingerboard. The Gibson has a center block like an ES-335 and the Gretsch originally had 'waffle' bracing but at some point switched to 'trestle' bracing. The new G6122T-59 has 'trestle' bracing and lacquer finish.
The current Gretsch G6122-59 models are the only Gretsch Country Gent's that have 25.5" scale length and 1 3/4" nut width. Gretsch made 4 or 5 for Chet in 1959 with these specs, but production Country Gents were narrower nuts and shorter scale. It's good to be Chet!!! Chet also played nylon string guitars and seemed to like wide & flat necks.
Not the same tone as an ES-175 but pretty cool fingerstyle guitars.Last edited by MaxTwang; 06-30-2016 at 07:58 PM.
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And as a relatively 'severe' compromise (at significant cost savings) would be something like a Telecaster with a custom, bolt-on neck (which would be available probably up to 1 7/8"). Ted Greene certainly played some pretty nice stuff on his Tele.
And there are probably other/similar 'severe' options here.
dave
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Hey, pix are good.
Here's one with
- 1 7/8" nut width,
- 1 1/8" deep V neck,
- standard bridge spacing,
- no truss rod ("we don' need no steekin' truss rods")
Currently undergoing a body change.Last edited by Hammertone; 06-30-2016 at 09:34 PM.
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Where did you get the wide Tele neck? Warmoth makes "Superwide Strat" necks which can be mounted on a Tele (but Tele necks can't be mounted on a Strat).
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Er, ah… I've been trying to find out who made this neck for awhile but have come up snake-eyes so far.
The cool thing about this one is that it fits a standard body pocket - I believe that Warmoth super-wide necks fit standard pockets but have overhangs for extra fingerboard width.
Rick Kelly (Carmine St. Music) makes big necks like this, without truss rods, but I don't know if he sells them separately from his guitars.
Brian Monty would be happy to make you a neck like this. All it takes is money.Last edited by Hammertone; 06-30-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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