Gibson LeGrand scale length

[silverfoxx]

Happy Birthday Vinny,
A LeGrande !! now your'e talking, having seen pics of Steve Longobardi's
and talking to him on it's virtues ,it would be on my bucket list too, but
now that Brexit has occurred I've shot myself in the foot. I would need to
dispose of my Beemer, LOL
Knowing your determination , I look forward to the pics when , not if ,you
acquire it.
btw , I echo 2bop's comment earlier, your'e still a young lad.
Have a good one.


Cheers ,
Alan

[QAman]

Jabs poignant viewpoints cannot be beat . Well said . Back to the original question - my scale length is 25.312 and one of the finest Archtops I've owned. It also looks pretty dam good .

[Max405]

You are an evil man..
Signed, Jealous Joe DeNisco

[Max405]

It is kind of funny how circular all these guitars are. Here is a timeline of sorts:

Gibson invents the L-5
D'Angelico makes a hand built guitar somewhat based on the L-5
Johnny Smith plays a superb D'Angelico
Guild makes the Johnny Smith Artist award based on JS's DA
Johnny Smith gets mad at Guild
Johnny Smith has Gibson make a Johnny Smith model (Guild's model now becomes the Artist award)
When Gibson moves to Nashville and Heritage begins, Johnny Smith has Heritage build a Johnny Smith model (Gibson alters the scale length and nut size of the Johnny Smith and calls it the Legrand)
Bob Benedetto redoes the Guild Artist Award. Johnny Smith plays one and endorses it and it goes full circle back to being the Johnny Smith Award (Heritage stops making the Johnny Smith model).

Guild archtop production in the US ceases and Johnny Smith dies. So there are no more new Johnny Smith guitars or Artist Award guitars. All that is left is the LeGrand.

And we jazz guitar players have to sort through this mess to figure out what we like.

And when we find what we like, we learn that what we like comes in a variety of different scale lengths.

[QAman]

I'm sorry Joe - no disrespect bro. This turned out to be quite the post. Some very interesting comments brought on by a scale length question. I will work hard to find you a LeGrand at the right price. I had to add the pic after Alan's kind words.

[QAman]

Stringswinger,
I loved the timeline- so true!

[lawson-stone]

I have rapist's wit, helios. I fook up most threads... and nobody wants it.

And funny, Joe, all you asked about in your OP was the scale length of the Le Grand and for those with any real experience of the Le Grand to pipe in.

Paisan, take a trip to TMZ. You have got the chops to find out for yourself its "harmonic vibrancy". That is what my last girlfriend said to me, she's packing her dildo because it has got more vibrancy than I do. Sorry, hun, I don't run on batteries, you know.

That Energizer Rabbit ad...I know whom their target market is.

TMI! TMI!


-Lawson
"Behavior that's admired is the path to power among peoples everywhere."-Beowulf

[Dennis D]

And when we find what we like, we learn that what we like comes in a variety of different scale lengths.

Do Gibson headstock angles vary as well ??

[Max405]

I have rapist's wit, helios. I fook up most threads... and nobody wants it.

And funny, Joe, all you asked about in your OP was the scale length of the Le Grand and for those with any real experience of the Le Grand to pipe in.

Paisan, take a trip to TMZ. You have got the chops to find out for yourself its "harmonic vibrancy". That is what my last girlfriend said to me, she's packing her dildo because it has got more vibrancy than I do. Sorry, hun, I don't run on batteries, you know.

That Energizer Rabbit ad...I know whom their target market is.

ive learned a lot from this thread. More than I expected.
Its not worth navigating the NYC/Long Island traffic to try out a guitar I have no intention of buying. That scale length is too long.
Once I get my gear worked out, it's gonna be nice to be able concentrate on nothing but playing. This stuff has worn me out.
Thanks Jabbs.

Bluedawg, can you tell me your scale length?

Joe D

[silverfoxx]

And when we find what we like, we learn that what we like comes in a variety of different scale lengths.

Joe, this quote could have been from Jabber's
girlfriend , Oh sorry ? You meant the Le Grande
my apologies.

[Jabberwocky]

Joe, this quote could have been from Jabber's
girlfriend , Oh sorry ? You meant the Le Grande
my apologies.

Ex-, silverfoxx, ex-. She found bliss with an Energiser Rabbit-powered "harmonically vibrant" device. Me? I'm just happy she left me with my guitars with the f-holes.

[Marty Grass]

I know I'll get in trouble w/ some of you here, but here goes! Heritage is certainly capable of making some excellent guitars when they put their minds to it. And I've owned a bunch H-535,Roy Clark, H-550, Millenium Ultra.
But I never felt the Golden Eagle was of the quality of Gibson archtops L-5C, Le Grand, J.S., etc Way to bright and thin of a top and back, and pencil thin necks as well. Gibson carved tops while not always having larger neck profiles, definitely have thicker tops and backs, which translated to a fuller tone acoustically.

I won't give you much trouble, just a little push back.

The Gibson archtops from Kalamazoo were hand made the same way that Heritage makes them now. Many were made by the same hands. As my friend Jabberwocky points out, they are not consistent, that includes the Gibsons. The two archtops I have in front of me have very different necks. One is just about as fat as a 59 LP while the other is what I'd call a medium D. My only Golden Eagle has a thicker top, about the same as a typical Wesmo. One of my Super Eagles, the one Greentone favored from Patrick's collection, has a thinner top with great acoustic resonance. My other Super Eagle, the one with P-90s, has a heavy top.

Are these random carvings done by cheap help at Heritage? Nope. They were ordered that way by the dealers. The same is true about the neck carve in many cases.

I won't argue that Gibson is inferior to Heritage. But I will tell you that the opposite is not true as a generalization. Further, I would bet that it is easier to get the specs that you want on a new instrument with Heritage than with Gibson.

Now I will plunge into what may well get me into trouble. It seems that many of us, myself included, spend way too much time on the minutia of guitars. The topic is seductive and a potential serious distraction from mastering music performance.

Recently I've watched Ken Burn's Jazz documentary and several really good jazz related movies: Crazy, Bird, and Whiplash. None of the artists in these seem pre-occupied with the details of the build of their instruments. To the contrary, it is clear that many, maybe all, of these virtuoso players were almost solely concerned about improving their hands and what's between their ears.

To be fair, the JGF devotes most of its "ink" to theory, history and performance related areas, so there is balance. Maybe I'm putting this post out here for myself!

[Jabberwocky]

And when we find what we like, we learn that what we like comes in a variety of different scale lengths.

Joe, this quote could have been from Jabber's
girlfriend , Oh sorry ? You meant the Le Grande
my apologies.

I have been told by those in the know it is really the nut width or girth that truly matters. And how fast you move that neck.

[Stringswinger]

Joe,

If you want a 25 inch scale with a full neck profile, a cutaway and old school Gibson voicing, your best bets are:

A. Another Heritage Johnny Smith
B. A custom ordered LeGrand
C. A custom ordered Campellone (he seems to be the only well regarded American luthier going for a Gibson voice. All the others seem to be going for the more modern Benedetto voice)

If you can live with the 25.5 scale, find a stock Legrand (I think most of them will be pretty close to that scale).

Bear in mind that solid top guitars are not good choices for playing loud. You will probably need a laminate top for that.

I am guessing that right now you are gassing for a LeGrand. If that is the case, find one and own it. You will not be happy till you do.

[BigMikeinNJ]

I think we waste way too much time obsessing about scale lengths, resale values and all that "my dog's better than your dog" bull. We all need to go woodshed for a very long time and reconnect with playing. Love all of you guys...

Big

[Max405]

I agree Mike. I played out for 2 hours yesterday, and still managed to practice for another 1-1/2. Today I practiced 2 hours this morning and I'll probably go back for another hour before I sleep. But, too bad it wasn't all done on the 25" scale. Then I could have practiced some stretch chords too..

[wintermoon]

I think we waste way too much time obsessing about scale lengths, resale values and all that "my dog's better than your dog" bull. We all need to go woodshed for a very long time and reconnect with playing. Love all of you guys...

Big

just curious, why the bold face type all the time?

[jads57]

Cadillac or Lincoln, Mercedes or Audi, Lexus or Infinity? All are excellent choices in general, and some speak to us more than others. Now if we spent as much time learning to use them properly,LOL!

[BigMikeinNJ]

Hell Wintermoon, I thought everybody knew I'm legally blind, working on going completely blind - all from the effects of the silent thief of sight called Open Field Glaucoma. We caught it way too late, I can get around but no way could I drive with the horribly reduced field of vision I have. I live in a safe place now, take cabs where I need to go and get by... I thought everybody knew this...

Big

[Jabberwocky]

I think we waste way too much time obsessing about scale lengths, resale values and all that "my dog's better than your dog" bull. We all need to go woodshed for a very long time and reconnect with playing. Love all of you guys...

Big

I agree with BIGMIKE. We should go woodshed. There are only 3 scale lengths anyway: 24.75", 25", 25.5". Anything outside of those three is tosh. In between is OK.

just curious, why the bold face type all the time?

wintermoon, BigMike has eyesight issues for real which requires bold-type for him to see what he is typing.

Joe, for what it is worth: https://www.archtop.com/ac_95LG.html . Damn sight nicer than my 2012.

[wintermoon]

Hell Wintermoon, I thought everybody knew I'm legally blind, working on going completely blind - all from the effects of the silent thief of sight called Open Field Glaucoma. We caught it way too late, I can get around but no way could I drive with the horribly reduced field of vision I have. I live in a safe place now, take cabs where I need to go and get by... I thought everybody knew this...

Big

gotcha Mike, I figured it was something like that.
carry on....

[Max405]

I agree with BIGMIKE. We should go woodshed. There are only 3 scale lengths anyway: 24.75", 25", 25.5". Anything outside of those three is tosh. In between is OK.
wintermoon, BigMike has eyesight issues for real which requires bold-type for him to see what he is typing.
Joe, for what it is worth: https://www.archtop.com/ac_95LG.html . Damn sight nicer than my 2012.

Jabbs, you are right. I am probably getting too critical about scale lengths. I know 25-1/2 is too long for what I do and for the size of my hands and how I position them. Slightly less would help. 25-1/4 would be good. But if I bought a LeGrand, got it home and it was 25-3/4, I'd be really disappointed. I was trying to find a reason to get a LeGrand, mainly because I love the look of them and learned from you guys that they sound so good. But the only short one out there is not for sale. So that's why I started this mess in the 1st place.
If the Very Fair offer I put in on the JS doesn't materialize (and I don't think it will) I am contemplating picking up a single pup 175 or 165. At 24-3/4, that can be the guitar I can play pretty much play anything on.
thanks for your help everyone.
Joe D

[2bornot2bop]

2b gets the good deals and we were put on this earth to stimulate the bad economy.....:-)

2b's a wannaBe....if he could buy a new Super 400 for the price some have, he would!

[skiboyny]

May I ask the lucky people here who have Gibson LeGrands to measure your scale length for me?
I do know they are supposed to be 25-1/2", But I understand that can vary. And one more thing, are you happy with your LeGrand?
thanks, Joe D
I'm Sorry Jabbs and Archtop guy, I posted this in the wrong spot.

Hi Joe, I'm lucky enough to own both a Legrand and Johnny Smith and would be happy to answer any questions you have in terms of sound or playability. Mine is 25 1/2 on the pin. I have come to respect the sound of the Legrand more and more. It didn't happen until I changed the tuneomatic to ebony. If I had to choose between the two I would be very hard pressed at this point. They are different but both very top notch in their own right. The difference in scale length seems less of a concern than you might imagine...

[Max405]

Skiboyny,
thank you so much for responding.
I love your lineup. The JS will always be my dream guitar, no matter what. I think you got the best of everything right there. Awesome!
JD