Hofner Jazzica Pickups

**fusionman** · 12-10-2014, 06:23 PM

Hi

I have a chance to buy Jazzica in very good price. Guitar's quality is excelent but i don't like floating pickups (in general - too treble, traditional sound). What do you think about puting a fixed humbucker in this type of guitar? Do you regard cutting top as a profanation?

**mr. beaumont** · 12-10-2014, 06:35 PM

I think it's a terrible idea, those Hofner pickups are great, and amps have eq controls.

**Hammertone** · 12-10-2014, 06:57 PM

It's been done.
If I was doing it, I'd add some crossbracing to prevent the top from cracking.

**ooglybong** · 12-10-2014, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

It's been done.
If I was doing it, I'd add some crossbracing to prevent the top from cracking.

Would it still need cross-bracing added if it were just the original neck pickup position being replaced?

**docbop** · 12-10-2014, 07:21 PM

I'd leave it along especially if you'd have to add bracing to it. The only thing I was ever told by a guy who was tester/evaluater for Hofner is on the Classica you want the Armstrong pickup it's much better than the Schaller.

**Klatu** · 12-10-2014, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

I'd leave it along especially if you'd have to add bracing to it. The only thing I was ever told by a guy who was tester/evaluater for Hofner is on the Classica you want the Armstrong pickup it's much better than the Schaller.

I didn't know that Jazzicas ever came with anything other than Kent Armstrongs. How would you know if yours was outfitted with a Schaller?

**Klatu** · 12-10-2014, 08:08 PM

I agree 100% with Jeff, the Jazzica isn't a guitar that was ever intended to be set up with built in pickups. There are some guitars that historically were sold in both acoustic and electric configurations like the famed Gibson L5. Such guitars are candidates for factory alterations, as their modifications wouldn't be obvious attempts to circumvent the builder's intent.

**spiral** · 12-10-2014, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think it's a terrible idea, those Hofner pickups are great, and amps have eq controls.

100% agree.

50% of the Hofner vibe is in the Diamond pickup, the other is the scale / neck carve. You are certainly welcome to do what you want with it, but maybe get another guitar with a pickup you like. A Diamond pickup is halfway between a traditional floater (mini humbucker) and a full size PAF. It has more body than the mini and more clarity than the PAF. A perfect pickup IMO. They are custom made by Schaller for Hofner (info from Hammertone).

**Hammertone** · 12-10-2014, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

I didn't know that Jazzicas ever came with anything other than Kent Armstrongs. How would you know if yours was outfitted with a Schaller?

The Jazzica was introduced in 1989. It was originally equipped with a Shadow-made Attila Zoller pickup.
The New President and Vice-President were introduced in 1998. By then, all three models used a Hofner-branded mini-humbucker, made by Schaller, visually patterned after the "Super Response" type 510 pickup made by Franz Pix for Hofner in the early 1960s, with a "diamond logo" embossed on the cover and six individually adjustable pole pieces. The Verythin Classic was introduced in 2000, and it (and subsequent Verythin variations) used this pickup as well. It is a mini-humbucker, marginally larger than a Gibson mini-humbucker.

Hofner did hire Kent Armstrong briefly to consult regarding these pickups, and various changes to the pickup have been made over the years, but they have always looked the same, and were made by Schaller exclusively for Hofner.

**docbop** · 12-11-2014, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

I didn't know that Jazzicas ever came with anything other than Kent Armstrongs. How would you know if yours was outfitted with a Schaller?

My time talking to the guy was limited so I didn't ask, I assume if I pulled the pickup it marked underweight.

**docbop** · 12-11-2014, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

The Jazzica was introduced in 1989. It was originally equipped with a Shadow-made Attila Zoller pickup.
The New President and Vice-President were introduced in 1998. By then, all three models used a Hofner-branded mini-humbucker, made by Schaller, visually patterned after the "Super Response" type 510 pickup made by Franz Pix for Hofner in the early 1960s, with a "diamond logo" embossed on the cover and six individually adjustable pole pieces. The Verythin Classic was introduced in 2000, and it (and subsequent Verythin variations) used this pickup as well. It is a mini-humbucker, marginally larger than a Gibson mini-humbucker.

Hofner did hire Kent Armstrong briefly to consult regarding these pickups, and various changes to the pickup have been made over the years, but they have always looked the same, and have always been made by Schaller, exclusively for Hofner.

I wish I could remember the guy's name you probably know him. He said he's not with Hofner for awhile but works for other instrument companies evaluating gear and making suggestions.

**fusionman** · 12-11-2014, 05:53 AM

So maybe i should buy Kent Armstrong flaoting PAF which sounds "less floating" than others?

**GuyBoden** · 12-11-2014, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by fusionman

Hi

I have a chance to buy Jazzica in very good price. Guitar's quality is excelent but i don't like floating pickups (in general - too treble, traditional sound). What do you think about puting a fixed humbucker in this type of guitar? Do you regard cutting top as a profanation?

I don't regard cutting the top as being a bad idea, but it will devalue the guitar. I always hear my carved Archtop guitars as having a brighter sound compared to laminates. Maybe you really want the laminate sound.

The Hofner Diamond pickups are good sounding pickups, I have them in my Hofner John Stowell model guitar.

**Hammertone** · 12-11-2014, 09:18 AM

Hofner typically mounts pickups to the tops of its carved-top guitars (includng various versions of the New President as well as the Chancellor) without cutting holes in the top. They use a pickup ring that sit on the top, attached with a couple of small screws, with a small hole in the top through which the pickup wire passes.

**jasaco** · 12-11-2014, 11:01 AM

So, Hammertone, with the pups in the rings, do they sound maybe halfway between a floater and a set-in pup? They don't really touch the body, do they, so they're technically floaters? Actually, set-in pups don't touch the body much either, right, since they're mainly suspended in the cutout hole...

**Archie** · 12-11-2014, 11:07 AM

For what its worth I've had the New President, Vice President and Jazzica (hammertone has only ever had one hofner

)

I gotta say, the biggest issue with the hoofers (sorry hammer) is the pickup. For me it is a complete waist of time. It can't deal with the acoustic quality of the guitar and just makes it sound flat and thunk (imo).

I too thought about putting a hum bucker in the neck position but as they are X braced or i braced, then you would need to add additional support.

I hate to say it but I don't think the Predisnt or jazzier are suitable for pickups at all. There just so acoustical strong that it does seem to work. I would always use mine recorded through a mic and boy, it sounds good.

Of course this is one mans opinion and other will have a different one, through their experience as well. Always good to get a cross section of thoughts.

**Archie** · 12-11-2014, 11:27 AM

Actually and not on quite on topic. The biggest issue I had with all those models is this.

The 16 body is almost a little too small for the acoustic tone and thus projects it forward (although very well). This is great for the listener who get s the full force of the tone but the player doesn't get the same rewards.

It would be the best of ideas that hofner put a little sound whole in the top bout facing the player, so he too can enjoy the acoustic tone that the listener does.

Example, when I sold my President, the buyer didn't seem overly impressed with the tone when he played but when I played to him, he suddenly started commenting on how nice it sounded. I knew I had to do that to show him, how nice it was.

If it had a little sound hole for the player, he would have been able to enjoy playing it a lot more.

**Hammertone** · 12-11-2014, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by jasaco

So, Hammertone, with the pups in the rings, do they sound maybe halfway between a floater and a set-in pup? They don't really touch the body, do they, so they're technically floaters? Actually, set-in pups don't touch the body much either, right, since they're mainly suspended in the cutout hole...

Set-in pickups are isolated from the top via (typically) two spring-tensioned screws sitting in a ring that has four points of contact with the top, whereas the Hofner pickups are attached to their pickup cradles at four points, and the cradle attached to the top at two points. Both touch the top in other spots as well in an incidental manner. Unlike well-mounted floaters, both of these mounts result in significant physical interactions with the vibrating wood of the top, but my guess is that the Gibson-style pickup is also affected by movement of the air inside the body.

So the answer is …. I don't know.

I do like the idea of not cutting up the top for practical reasons. And I have found that not cutting pickup holes in the top helps maintain acoustic volume on this kind of guitar, even when it is loaded with two pickups, four pots and a three-way switch.

Here's the #1 prototype Hofner Jimmy Bruno - a Thin President w/a set-in humbucker. Hofner did these with floating pickups as well. I had a couple of cracks in the top repaired when I got the guitar back. This guitar was PLAYED. My guess is that if it had been built with a small cross-brace below the hole for the pickup (Gibson does this), it would have had no cracks. Just a guess.

**dmorash** · 12-11-2014, 02:38 PM

I have a Jazzica which gets very little play time. I love the guitar but ... not the pickup. Pickup options seem a little limited with this model.

Seeing as this thread is pointing out the challenges of mounting a pickup into the top. I've wondered if these guitars might be able to be retrofitted with something like a Dearmond 1100 - they have sounded lovely anytime I have ever heard one.

**Hammertone** · 12-11-2014, 06:44 PM

Dearmond 1100 and similar pickups can be mounted to almost any archtop guitar.
One can mount all manner of aftermarket floating pickups to the Jazzica, New President/Vice President/Thin President, and Chancellor models, either to the end of the neck or to a pickguard.

**Klatu** · 12-15-2014, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by dmorash

I have a Jazzica which gets very little play time. I love the guitar but ... not the pickup. Pickup options seem a little limited with this model.

Seeing as this thread is pointing out the challenges of mounting a pickup into the top. I've wondered if these guitars might be able to be retrofitted with something like a Dearmond 1100 - they have sounded lovely anytime I have ever heard one.

The trouble with Dearmond 1100 pickups is that they aren't readily available at reasonable prices. There's one currently on Ebay that is selling for a Buy it Now price of $1100. Now I don't know about you, but my life would be over if my wife ever found out that I spent that much money on an old pickup.

**dmorash** · 12-15-2014, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

The trouble with Dearmond 1100 pickups is that they aren't readily available at reasonable prices. There's one currently on Ebay that is selling for a Buy it Now price of $1100. Now I don't know about you, but my life would be over if my wife ever found out that I spent that much money on an old pickup.

Aren't there reissues of those. I'm sure I have seen listings on ebay for 3 - 4 hundred (still a little pricey)

**Klatu** · 12-15-2014, 02:14 PM

As far as I know, the reissues were only sold along with the new Guild guitars. I've never seen them sold separately at retail locations outside of Ebay.

**spiral** · 12-15-2014, 07:10 PM

OP doesn't like floaters:

Originally Posted by fusionman

i don't like floating pickups (in general - too treble, traditional sound). What do you think about puting a fixed humbucker in this type of guitar? Do you regard cutting top as a profanation?

Going from a a Hofner Diamond to a Dearmond floater is the exact opposite direction of the original request, IMO.

@ Fusionman
Have you tried getting the Hofner pickup very close to the strings? If that still is too bright / traditional, ask Pete Biltoft how close he could get to a traditional PAF by using the Hofner Diamond shell, and putting new guts into it, or making a custom one that fits the mount. He should be able to be realistic with what is possible given the constraints.

**Hammertone** · 12-16-2014, 03:10 AM

Possibly. I was going to suggest a Dimarzio X2N installed right in the middle of the top, between the two regular pickup locations. But only one with cream-coloured bobbins, of course. It's my usual recommendation for prewar Gibson archtops, but would be just as effective here. That kills a lot of birds.