70s Gibson ES-175 - Too "Boomey" on the Low E String

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-22-2016, 10:26 AM

Still on my journey to return to playing guitar after decades away. I am playing a 1970's ES-175D and didn't even own an amp. I ended up buying a modeler (Line6 HD500x through a 5 inch monitor speaker - pretty much only playing for myself/by myself in a small den). This was part amp and part toy to play with, to be honest.

To the limits of my abilities (which shows up quickly) I play fingerstyle chord melody and walking bass stuff. I have found/made a couple of 'presets' (amp/effect settings) that work pretty well for jazz'y chord melody stuff. But I am having trouble with the Low E string which just sounds way to 'Boomey' for me on the walking bass stuff. I have tilted the neck pickup (which is what I am using) to make the low E side a bit lower plus have lowered the low E pole piece (these are humbuckers, BTW). But I still have that problem and I noticed it as well when played through a Line6 Pocket Pod into a 2 inch Bose computer speaker. FWIW it is less of a problem on the bridge pickup.

I am currently using .011 nickel/wound strings. I guess I need to do some experimenting here, but I was thinking of going with a different low E string (currently a .048). Other thoughts on this?

BTW, I can mostly get rid of this with one of the EQ effects (e.g. a 6db or more low cutoff at 150 hz or the EQ effect that boosts the mid range). But both of these seem to me to be extreme solutions.

Other thoughts? Thanks.

dave

**pubylakeg** · 05-22-2016, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

BTW, I can mostly get rid of this with one of the EQ effects (e.g. a 6db or more low cutoff at 150 hz or the EQ effect that boosts the mid range). But both of these seem to me to be extreme solutions.

Other thoughts? Thanks.

dave

I wouldn't worry about cutting eq. If it makes it sound better, just do it.

**Drifter** · 05-22-2016, 07:15 PM

What pubylakeg said. You can also try to position your speaker / cab differently to the back wall. A 5" speaker too boomy, that should be tameable?

**Frank67** · 05-23-2016, 12:51 AM

That cut at 150 Hz is usually a good idea. Archtops tend to get boomy. If it sounds good to you, I would go with it and not worry.

**Franz 1997** · 05-23-2016, 04:48 AM

Try lowering the bass side of the pickup a lot, up to 8 mm in extreme cases, then raising the bass side pole pieces. This will make the bass strings have more of a single-coil response, which may eliminate the 'boominess'. Many experienced players did this in the days before boutique pickups and outboard eqs were available. It works. And, it's no-cost and reversible.

**jorgemg1984** · 05-23-2016, 06:49 AM

The Line6 has a low cut filter, which is perfect for your objectives. Try it between 150hz and 200hz.

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-23-2016, 07:44 AM

Thanks for the comments. It looks like I was on the right track here, although a more severe change in pickup position is interesting.

dave

**DanielleOM** · 05-23-2016, 08:07 AM

I wonder if La Bella intentionally made the 6th string on the flats I recently tried so dead and muted compared to other strings in the set to avoid this.

**Jabberwocky** · 05-23-2016, 08:21 AM

Plucking it too hard? 0.048 low E does appear rather wimpy from where I am seated. So, you may be digging in harder than you imagine. Maybe bump up the gauge of the lower four wounds? Plain steels are cheap and many of us feel that brand names make no difference where plains are concerned. Just Strings sells generic ones for $2.90 a dozen.

48-11 seems rather light. I'd move up to 50-12 or 52-12. I'm surprised the floating bridge stays on without shifting.The ES-175D is a deep-bodied guitar so its bass has a tendency to bloat. A heavier bass string takes care of that.

**jbucklin** · 05-23-2016, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by DanielleOM

I wonder if La Bella intentionally made the 6th string on the flats I recently tried so dead and muted compared to other strings in the set to avoid this.

Danielle, have you ordered a set of TIs yet?

Okay, I haven't ordered a set of GHS flats---yet.

**ksargent** · 05-23-2016, 09:11 AM

I had this problem when I played fignerstyle (I had always been a finger style player in other genres) - regardless of the guitar, amp, pickup height etc. My solution was to play hybrid - I get a nice, tight bass and I have the advantages of both worlds.

Ken

**silverfoxx** · 05-23-2016, 03:24 PM

Hi DaveLeeNC, and welcome here,

May I suggest that you follow the suggestions made here by Jabberwocky and
Chris Metcalfe ( Franz 1997 ) they are seasoned players and know what they
are talking about.
Jabber is absolutely correct, IMO a 48 gauge 6th string is too light on a Es175
you will find a 50 or 52 gauge better ( TI's 12-50 or even13's are my squeeze)
Chris suggests not only lowering the bass side of the neck pickup but raising the
bass side pole screws as well. I can tell you that it is an instant cure for boominess.
On my new Es275 I have done just that , straight from the box it was far too boomy
and the above procedure cured it. No expensive pickup changes, or magnets required.

.

**pingu** · 05-23-2016, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

Try lowering the bass side of the pickup a lot, up to 8 mm in extreme cases, then raising the bass side pole pieces. This will make the bass strings have more of a single-coil response, which may eliminate the 'boominess'. Many experienced players did this in the days before boutique pickups and outboard eqs were available. It works. And, it's no-cost and reversible.

yes agreed ...
i have my neck bucker down a lot on the bass side , nearly a cm down relative to the treble side , looks odd but sounds balanced on my old Ibanez af120

Franz is right , get out the screwdriver and experiment a bit (before you use the eq)

(and thats from a sound engineer)

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-24-2016, 08:13 AM

Thanks again for the VERY helpful input. One of my concerns was that I had never read of folks encountering such an issue, so was wondering if there was something going with my equipment that was abnormal. But clearly this is not uncommon for my setup and it seems like some serious screwdriver rotation is in order.

A related question. The implication here seems to be that a heavier bass string would reduce this which is the opposite of what I would have expected. Am I interpreting correctly here?

And BTW, the 11/48 string set was purely a 'defensive play'. Until 2 months ago I hadn't touched a fretboard since the 1980's, and my 67 year old, callous-free fingertips, and weak fingers were a real problem. I don't think this would be nearly as big a problem at this point. In fact it might be easier as my biggest problem right now seems to be that the B and particularly the hi-E string will sometimes 'get lost' in the crease of my last knuckle on half barre's.

Thanks again.

dave

**pingu** · 05-24-2016, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Thanks again for the VERY helpful input. One of my concerns was that I had never read of folks encountering such an issue, so was wondering if there was something going with my equipment that was abnormal. But clearly this is not uncommon for my setup and it seems like some serious screwdriver rotation is in order.

yes takes 2 mins !
it will fix the problem at source as opposed
to eq/compression fixes which are more expensive and may create other probs

A related question. The implication here seems to be that a heavier bass string would reduce this which is the opposite of what I would have expected. Am I interpreting correctly here?

a bigger 6th string will be louder generally
try TI swings they're nicely balanced ime

And BTW, the 11/48 string set was purely a 'defensive play'. Until 2 months ago I hadn't touched a fretboard since the 1980's, and my 67 year old, callous-free fingertips, and weak fingers were a real problem. I don't think this would be nearly as big a problem at this point. In fact it might be easier as my biggest problem right now seems to be that the B and particularly the hi-E string will sometimes 'get lost' in the crease of my last knuckle on half barre's.

Thanks again.

dave

no worries
that will go away automatically with practice

**Jabberwocky** · 05-24-2016, 02:26 PM

My 2 cents: on a short scale ES-175 heavier gauge strings would be better. If you are forceful in your thumbing, a heavier bass string would take more force to excite and hence be less boomy for the same amount of force. It is going to sound tauter too as it should because it is tauter.

**Grez** · 05-25-2016, 10:03 AM

Have you listened with headphones? If the boomy sound is gone, then it isn't your guitar. Two points of interest. First, depending on the ceiling height and other dimensions of your room, you may have a strong room resonance at that frequency. The lower frequencies of the E string are exciting the room. Or, second, small speakers tend to have exaggerated low end between 100 and 200Hz to try to make up for the fact that they have little to no output below 100Hz. This could also be causing the problem. If you hear the same problem on the headphones, then ignore everything I just said!

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-25-2016, 03:41 PM

Checking things out with headphones is a good idea. I had ruled out non-guitar variables as I had experienced this boomeyness with both two different setups (Bose computer speaker and Line6 Pocket Pod simulator and also my current 5 inch JBL monitor speaker and Line6 HD500X simulator). But that doesn't eliminate the room (even though the speaker positions were quite different).

But I have done some playing with the pickup positions and with some of the 'amplifier settings' (which are hugely varied in my case, of course). And what I observed is that a number of things affect this such as reverb settings, choice of simulated microphone (in my setup I am simulating a chosen pre-amp/cabinet combo being mic'ed by one of six simulated mic's), plus pickup positions of course.

And there is the string thing. So step #1 here is going to be to put a 'real set of strings' on this guitar. Those Thomastik strings are pricey, but that is where I think I am headed. I was considering the "Jazz Swing 12's", but would be interested in other opinions here.

Plus I really need to find a 'real guitar amp' to try out just as a sanity check here. My setup does raise some suspicion as, at least in the typical jazz guitar sense, "this just ain't right"

Thanks again for the help. And I just found an old set of decent Koss headphones that were hiding in the attic.

dave

**DanielleOM** · 05-25-2016, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

Danielle, have you ordered a set of TIs yet?

Okay, I haven't ordered a set of GHS flats---yet.

I currently have the TI Swing 12 set on an Eastman AR503CE, the TI Swing 13 set on an Eastman AR371CE and the TI Bebop 13 set on an Eastman AR805CE. I have the GHS set on a Benedetto Bravo.

**Jabberwocky** · 05-26-2016, 04:50 AM

T-I Jazz Swing 12 or 13. And don't look back.

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-30-2016, 08:13 AM

Well, I have fixed the problem. Ernie Ball .011 Power Slinkey's is what I had on the instrument (it is what the local, pretty small, shop had in stock in .011's and after 30 years away from the instrument, strings was not first on the problem list).

I just swapped in a set of TI Jazz Swings (.012) and what a difference. Still a lot of bass but that irritating BOOM off the low E is gone! I even moved the low side of my pickups back to closer to 'normal' from the really low position that I had put them in.

And the over-all tone is (cannot find a better way to describe it) 'much more jazz like'. Even to an untrained ear like mine, the difference is obvious.

dave

**jbucklin** · 05-30-2016, 08:38 AM

It's amazing what a set of TI flats will do. I have been ready to sell guitars due to the frustration of not getting the right tone---until I put TIs on them! As you use them for awhile, you will eventually realize that they are God's gift to jazz guitarists. Also, as they age you will most likely find that the excess bassiness from your low E will disappear entirely. Enjoy your "new" guitar.

**MaxTwang** · 05-30-2016, 02:03 PM

Many jazz amps (i.e. Polytone) have undersized cabinets which curtail the lows. I would expect a Line 6 HD500x modeling an amp with a larger cab, into a 5" monitor (which should be pretty flat at lower volumes) to be boomy with a jazz box. EQ'ing is perfectly valid (and standard practice for me when I used modelers).

Franz's pickup adjustment looks like a cool trick too - tuning a humbucker towards a single coil on the low strings by decreasing the signal on the slug side (by lowering the pickup) while maintaining the signal on the screw side (by raising the screws).

**MaxTwang** · 05-30-2016, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

It's amazing what a set of TI flats will do. I have been ready to sell guitars due to the frustration of not getting the right tone---until I put TIs on them! As you use them for awhile, you will eventually realize that they are God's gift to jazz guitarists. Also, as they age you will most likely find that the excess bassiness from your low E will disappear entirely. Enjoy your "new" guitar.

Why is God charging me $25 for a 'gift'?

**DaveLeeNC** · 05-30-2016, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

Many jazz amps (i.e. Polytone) have undersized cabinets which curtail the lows. I would expect a Line 6 HD500x modeling an amp with a larger cab, into a 5" monitor (which should be pretty flat at lower volumes) to be boomy with a jazz box. EQ'ing is perfectly valid (and standard practice for me when I used modelers).

SNIP

Just to be sure that I understand, if this is the case then I would get the same 'boom' playing into a big cabinet amp. That is kind of what I suspected based on what I experienced, but wanted to be sure.

dave