bridge base on early seventies L5's

[JazzNote]

Does anybody know for sure when Gibson started using ebony bridge bases with bow tie inlays on L5s?

I have a 70 L5 which i bought in 1990 from the second owner. It came with a tuneomatic bridge and a ebony base with bowtie inlays and i wonder if this is original.

[Greentone]

Just perusing the sold instrument archives at archtop.com it would appear that the L-5CES, L-5C, and Super-400CES guitars from 1966-1970 sported plain rosewood bases. By 1972-73, it appears that the guitars came with ebony based bridges with "bowties" or whatever the inlays are. There are two guitars, L-5CES models, labelled "70-72," that do have ebony base bridges with inlays, but I would bet that they are '72 models, not '70--going by (a) the other 1970 instruments at archtop.com, and (b) the instruments that appear in my 1970 Gibson catalog. (Sorry, it's at my office. Otherwise, I would scan the L-5 and include it here.)

[Greentone]

FWIW, If I owned your guitar, I would keep the bowtie bridge on there. I would bet that the ebony bridge sounds better. It sure looks sharp.

[Stringswinger]

Gibson is famous (as is Fender) for using up parts beyond the year they switch to other parts. You can find PAFs on years that should have Patent sticker PUPS.

I had a 1970 ES-175 with the Reintroduced parallelogram tailpiece, but also had an orange label. I think 1970 was a transition year so I will bet the ebony/TOM and the rosewood bridge can be found on L-5's and Super 400's from that year.

Wintermoon's 69 might have been a special order, a retrofit or an early transition piece.

[JazzNote]

Just perusing the sold instrument archives at archtop.com it would appear that the L-5CES, L-5C, and Super-400CES guitars from 1966-1970 sported plain rosewood bases. By 1972-73, it appears that the guitars came with ebony based bridges with "bowties" or whatever the inlays are. There are two guitars, L-5CES models, labelled "70-72," that do have ebony base bridges with inlays, but I would bet that they are '72 models, not '70--going by (a) the other 1970 instruments at archtop.com, and (b) the instruments that appear in my 1970 Gibson catalog. (Sorry, it's at my office. Otherwise, I would scan the L-5 and include it here.)

Very interesting, so my "1970" might in fact be a 72 or 73. I based the assumption that it's a 70 on a statement in the blue book of electric guitars which says that in 1970 they stamped "MADE IN USA" on the back of the HS assuming they didn't in 71/72/73 where they obviously used similar serial numbers.

FWIW, If I owned your guitar, I would keep the bowtie bridge on there. I would bet that the ebony bridge sounds better. It sure looks sharp.

Of course i will keep it ..... never ever had any other intentions.

[plasticpigeon]

Jazznote, I believe that from 1970 they stamped the back of the headstock, not in 1970. My 1972 L-5 has a rosewood bridge base, and a varitone tailpiece which were used on earlier models, an interim headstock design which is a flowerpot /urn inlay on dyed holly, similar to earlier versions but with a simplified urn shape and different Gibson font, which seems to only have been used from 1970 - 1972, made in USA stamped on the back of the headstock and a bent metal bracket which were features of later models, and embossed pickups which were used only in 1972. The sides are flamey maple and the back has some figure but it is slab cut maple, not bookmatched. Maybe this helps a little!

[plasticpigeon]

Jazznote, do you have any pictures of yours? I can only see one of the back on another post.

[JazzNote]

Jazznote, do you have any pictures of yours? I can only see one of the back on another post.

In the other post you can click on the two links which lead to two more pics, altogether there should be three. If it helps to have any more, let me know which part of the guitar they should show, i can easily take a few additional ones.

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...tml#post650572

btw. here's an interesting link, on entering the S/N and other info it states that my L5 would be either a 70, 71 or 72

The Guitar Dater Project - Gibson Serial Number Decoder

[plasticpigeon]

It says invalid attachment when I try. How about pics of the headstock and tailpiece? I shall put up pics of mine if you like.

[plasticpigeon]

[JazzNote]

Here are the missing pics and a couple of new ones. I just realized how much the guitar has suffered during the time when it was my main instrument and i took it to almost every gig for about 15 years.

[plasticpigeon]

That is interesting, you have the old style tailpiece but the newer headstock, they must be close in years. I realise I put up a pic of my guitar with a wooden bridge top, here is one with the tune-o-matic.

[JazzNote]

I'm sure that my bridge is not the original as its chrome and not golden. I have just sent a mail to the guy who sold it to me, asking if he remembers who he bought it from ... if i can find him i will probably find out more.

How can one tell that the tailpiece is an older style? The middle part is darker on my 2003 L5, the engraved ornaments a tiny little smaller, but one can't see the metal part under the hole. Is there anything else which i can't see?

[plasticpigeon]

To be honest I am no expert, but at some time the "varitone" or "topcrusher" was deleted and the hole filled in. This happened sometime in the 70s. That is all I was referring to. I think even older ones had a hinge at the bottom, but don't take that as gospel, there is a linit to my geekiness.

[Greentone]

I have never seen a Varitone tailpiece with a hinge. I have seen old, pre-Varitone L-5 tailpieces that are hinged. The Varitone feature worked by moving a bent metal piece with a cylindrical "top crusher" brazed to it along the underside of the tailpiece by inserting a hex key into the hole in the top of the tailpiece. As the "top crusher" is advanced toward the bridge it pushes the tailpiece angle upward. It works, but it's pretty crude and it really pinches the carved top of the guitar--not my cup of tea.

I have two guitars with tailpiece angle adjustment. My Super Eagle has tailpiece fingers. My Matsumoku copy of a L-5CES/Super-V has a Varitone L-5 tailpiece. Honestly, I would have no qualms about adjusting the string angles on the former, but I would never fool with the string angle on the latter. It's just a good way to botch the top of the guitar.

[Never adjust a Varitone for more downward force on the top while there are strings on the guitar. Mainly what you will accomplish is pinching the top of the guitar. IMO, Varitone adjustments should be done with strings off. Now, this is pretty impractical because you make an adjustment, restring the guitar. What if you don't like the results? Strings off, repeat? Hmm?]

[JazzNote]

As the "top crusher" is advanced toward the bridge it pushes the tailpiece angle upward. It works, but it's pretty crude and it really pinches the carved top of the guitar--not my cup of tea.

My first L5 was a 67 and when i once took the tailpiece off i found a nasty mark on the top where the "top crusher" was located. I guess this varitone feature was invented by someone who didn't have a high esteem for a nice spruce top.

[Greentone]

I don't think L-5 tailpieces have that Varitone sliding piece anymore. Good riddance.

[Hammertone]

Japanese L-5 copy tailpiece with top-cracker device, followed by a Gibson L-5 tailpiece, sans top-cracker, from the 1970s. Note the serial numbr on the Gibson tailpiece. They also put serial numbers under the bases of the bow-tie bridges:

[Danny W.]

I have photos of a '70 and '73 L-5CES that I owned--both have the rosewood base & TOM.

Danny W.