Joe Pass' Late-Career Custom Gibson

**lawson-stone** · 03-21-2016, 05:26 PM

We all know at the end of his career, Joe Pass was playing a Gibson that seemed to be a 1-pickup ES175, somewhat thinner than the usual 175.

Is there any source or information on this guitar? I'm curious what pickup it had (Classic '57? 490R?) and anything else that is known about this guitar.

**Greentone** · 03-21-2016, 06:17 PM

The only things I know about this guitar are from watching the 1994-era video material. Like everyone else, I say "WOW!" The tone that Pass gets from this guitar through what looks to be a Polytone Baby Taurus amplifier is nothing short of GREAT.

I have always admired Joe Pass. His influence drove me to get and play a Gibson ES-175 (single pickup) and a Polytone Baby Brute for about 30 years. Still, the tone from _that_ guitar is special. I should imagine that had Joe Pass lived maybe Gibson would have brought the guitar out as a "Joe Pass Custom," or something. They already had the Epiphone out, but a Gibson model would have really done justice to Pass' stature.

**djelley** · 03-21-2016, 06:43 PM

In "An Evening with Joe Pass" he says that it is basically a 175. He wanted the neck shape to be a little flatter and he wanted the body to be thinner with only a neck pickup and to have it moved back toward the fretboard.

Joe Pass' Late-Career Custom Gibson-capture-jpg

Joe Pass' Late-Career Custom Gibson-capture-jpg

Joe Pass' Late-Career Custom Gibson-capture2-jpg

**Stringswinger** · 03-21-2016, 07:31 PM

Two prototypes were made of this guitar. When Joe Died, his widow sent one back to Gibson (at their request, presumably in someone's private collection now) and gave the other one to John Pisano (John told me this) for safekeeping.

Why this guitar was never put into production is a mystery. There is/was? some estate conflict between Joe's widow (wife number 3) and his adopted stepchildren from wife number 2. Perhaps they could not agree on who would get the royalties? Even still, it looks like the ultimate gigging jazz guitar, a 1 pickup 175 with the single pickup in L4CES position and a slightly thinner than usual body with a genuine early 60's neck profile (for those, like myself, who like that sort of thing). I presume the pickup is a 57 classic. Even if Gibson could not market it as a Joe Pass model, I bet they could call it an ES-160 and sell quite a few. I would want one, especially if there was a blond/natural option.

**vintagelove** · 03-21-2016, 08:21 PM

Some lefty had this idea in 84 apparently...

It is very warm with the pickup location.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-21-2016, 08:56 PM

The neck on it was also 5 piece flamed maple instead of mahogany and gold hardware. Joe removed the pickguard on it.

**Jabberwocky** · 03-22-2016, 01:57 AM

ES-775 and you're almost there.

Joe Pass' Late-Career Custom Gibson-775_1-jpg

**Flat** · 03-22-2016, 03:56 AM

The slightly thinner body and neck pickup placement remind me of my Heritage H575. I wonder if it had any influence on the Heritage design?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-22-2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Two prototypes were made of this guitar. When Joe Died, his widow sent one back to Gibson (at their request, presumably in someone's private collection now) and gave the other one to John Pisano (John told me this) for safekeeping.

Why this guitar was never put into production is a mystery. There is/was? some estate conflict between Joe's widow (wife number 3) and his adopted stepchildren from wife number 2. Perhaps they could not agree on who would get the royalties? Even still, it looks like the ultimate gigging jazz guitar, a 1 pickup 175 with the single pickup in L4CES position and a slightly thinner than usual body with a genuine early 60's neck profile (for those, like myself, who like that sort of thing). I presume the pickup is a 57 classic. Even if Gibson could not market it as a Joe Pass model, I bet they could call it an ES-160 and sell quite a few. I would want one, especially if there was a blond/natural option.

How about ES-175JP?

**Greentone** · 03-22-2016, 10:18 AM

JP = Joe Pass or JP = John Pisano ?

**lawson-stone** · 03-22-2016, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Greentone

JP = Joe Pass or JP = John Pisano ?

I'd be willing to say both! Such great players, such a nice musical friendship.

**339 in june** · 03-22-2016, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

JP = Joe Pass or JP = John Pisano ?

or maybe John Petrucci ?

**goldenwave77** · 03-25-2016, 06:46 AM

What is the difference between this guitar and the Heritage Kenny Burrell Groovemaster ?!...(other than the pu location).

**Archtop Guy** · 03-25-2016, 06:54 AM

John Pizzarelli

**Groyniad** · 03-25-2016, 11:56 AM

early on i got a 175 - gigged it for a few years, then got an L4

my first thought was that the warmer, softer, 'fatter'?, tone of the L4 was all about the different pickup location

now - when i listen to the two guitars - i think one of the most interesting things about the 175 is the pickup position. more bite less lush.

if you made the fretboard shorter you could get a pickup even further from the bridge for an even softer attack and warmer sound

nowadays i like definition as much as warmth. the L5 gets both so well.

**nopedals** · 03-25-2016, 01:22 PM

I see so many threads about Joe Pass equipment and his recorded sound. Didn't he pretty much always play with his fingers, while just about all the other "pantheon" guys use picks? Wouldn't that have way more to do with the "warmth" of his sound than his guitar? Not making any assertions here; I know better than to wade in with all of the Pass experts here. Just genuinely curious.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-25-2016, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by nopedals

I see so many threads about Joe Pass equipment and his recorded sound. Didn't he pretty much always play with his fingers, while just about all the other "pantheon" guys use picks? Wouldn't that have way more to do with the "warmth" of his sound than his guitar? Not making any assertions here; I know better than to wade in with all of the Pass experts here. Just genuinely curious.

Joe played both with his fingers and a pick, well a half of a pick. He broke them into. He always kept a pick in his mouth for when he wanted to play fast.

**JazzMuzak** · 03-30-2016, 09:53 PM

Does anybody know how much thinner it was compared to a normal es-175?

**dconeill** · 07-24-2016, 05:15 AM

A story I heard, but I don't know where, is that Joe Pass played a Heritage Sweet 16, maybe while he was in Germany, and liked it well enough that he adopted certain of its attributes for his custom Gibson. Sorry I don't recall where I heard that.

Perhaps I recall that I saw it mentioned in Just Jazz Guitar, but I'm really not certain.

**Bluedawg** · 07-25-2016, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

early on i got a 175 - gigged it for a few years, then got an L4

my first thought was that the warmer, softer, 'fatter'?, tone of the L4 was all about the different pickup location

now - when i listen to the two guitars - i think one of the most interesting things about the 175 is the pickup position. more bite less lush.

if you made the fretboard shorter you could get a pickup even further from the bridge for an even softer attack and warmer sound

nowadays i like definition as much as warmth. the L5 gets both so well.

Don't forget that the L4s have a solid spruce top as well ..

I pulled out my L4CES a few days ago and it has its own magic sound .... I almost like the tone more than my L5CES

**vanschoyck** · 07-25-2016, 07:31 PM

I've lusted over that particular guitar myself, and wished Gibson would sell them. I believed that a guitar could solve all of my problems. Still pretty much do.

**Jabberwocky** · 07-26-2016, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

Don't forget that the L4s have a solid spruce top as well ..

I pulled out my L4CES a few days ago and it has its own magic sound .... I almost like the tone more than my L5CES

Bluedawg, best kept secret in the whole Gibson archtop line. Under $3000 used. The Mahogany ones are particularly charming. It is the only one Gibson where I can reasonably afford to have one in each finish. I have 2 L-4CESs, a 2001 Maple ASB and a 2010 Mahogany Natural.

**Bluedawg** · 07-26-2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Bluedawg, best kept secret in the whole Gibson archtop line. Under $3000 used. The Mahogany ones are particularly charming. It is the only one Gibson where I can reasonably afford to have one in each finish. I have 2 L-4CESs, a 2001 Maple ASB and a 2010 Mahogany Natural.

Very cool

**jads57** · 07-27-2016, 01:48 PM

Owned a ES-775 for many years and loved it's tone, especially the neck p/up and it's location. I also like the all maple construction vs. magony back and sides. But ultimately it was too heavy for me to gig with standing up at between 8 -9lbs!

**agentsmith** · 07-27-2016, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Bluedawg, best kept secret in the whole Gibson archtop line. Under $3000 used. The Mahogany ones are particularly charming. It is the only one Gibson where I can reasonably afford to have one in each finish. I have 2 L-4CESs, a 2001 Maple ASB and a 2010 Mahogany Natural.

But...They sound absolutely nothing like a 175.