Question about loopers

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 10:08 AM

I've never in my life used one. Not really. I'm trying to come up with ways to play some complex stuff live with a band that require extra parts. Does it depend on a metronome or click? Would the drummer be required to wear headphones for the click? If u play one 8 bar phrase and loop that how otherwise does it keep accurate time?

Basic dumb questions.

**gmek** · 03-05-2016, 10:58 AM

Most of your basic loopers you have to control the timing. Start and stop times are very important to get a usable loop.

Check out the ditto line by TC electronics. The original is a great practice tool but if you're using it live I'd vote for the X2 (it has a dedicated stop button and some fx)

I think pigtronix makes one that you can have multiple sections.

I like to use loopers to either make soundscapes or for practicing. I'll sometimes try to sneak an extra rhythm part in but it's really tricky to do.

**Doctor Jeff** · 03-05-2016, 11:28 AM

The Ditto X4 has 2 independent loops, so you can do A/B sections. I've only used it for practice, not for live, but I'm thinking about it with guitar and a friend of mine who plays sax.

The only thing about using the looper with drummers is they're dependent on your rhythm, not the other way round. I'm not sure they can hear the guitar that well.

There is a midi connection, so you could import a metronome. Another possibility might be to each wear a small bluetooth earpiece and get the metronome from an iPhone app. Or maybe use a visual metronome. Just a few thoughts.

**kris** · 03-05-2016, 11:30 AM

RC-300....only.:-)

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 11:48 AM

Does it have memory? Duh. I mean can I set up some loops for performance and carry those with me instead of just doing the loop live?

**HeyNow** · 03-05-2016, 11:48 AM

A lot of them have tap tempo and will align the loop to the full bar after you press top. The tempo will blink and some will count off 4 beats before starting to record, after you press start.

You can control the metronome volume on some of them.

With a drummer, you could just count off before playing or pressing record (or the looper counts off for you as mentioned above).

If you don't tap and just go free, your loop might go out of time after a few loops even though it sounded like you pressed stop right at the right time to start the newly recorded loop.

I used the old Jamman for 8+ years - still have it.

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 11:49 AM

What about this Boomerang? Ideally I'd like to store say 6 songs, pre sequenced. Or not.

**HeyNow** · 03-05-2016, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Does it have memory? Duh. I mean can I set up some loops for performance and carry those with me instead of just doing the loop live?

My Jamman has a memory card and can be hooked up to a computer through USB. The loops are in separate folders. Not sure how others work. Probably one or both.

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by HeyNow

A lot of them have tap tempo and will align the loop to the full bar after you press top. The tempo will blink and some will count off 4 beats before starting to record, after you press start.

You can control the metronome volume on some of them.

With a drummer, you could just count off before playing or pressing record (or the looper counts off for you as mentioned above).

If you don't tap and just go free, your loop might go out of time after a few loops even though it sounded like you pressed stop right at the right time to start the newly recorded loop.

I used the old Jamman for 8+ years - still have it.

This is my concern. Even with good time some of those tap tempo things algorithm for predicting tempo can be tricky. In some cases I would like to loop -- in most cases - from somewhere in the middle of the song. Even in good situations after 4 or more cycles it will vary. I can't see a way out of having the drummer use headphones.

I tried using Ableton Live with a separate output that went to the drummer as a click track. But I want to avoid all that complication - computer, interface. Ableton has a cool feature that lets IT follow the drummers time. That is really cool.

**kris** · 03-05-2016, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Does it have memory? Duh. I mean can I set up some loops for performance and carry those with me instead of just doing the loop live?

Rc-300 is one of the most professional loopers on the market.
You can prepare/record/ loops at home and take them two a gig.
99 songs with your titles you can arrange in home.

recomended.
Best
Kris

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 02:27 PM

More than Boomerang?

**Max405** · 03-05-2016, 02:45 PM

Henry, using a looper in a live performance especially with a band would scare the crap out of me. And while performing live the last thing I would need is something else to worry about. Also, I've never met a drummer who is very welcoming to the idea of keeping up with another rhythm devices' time. Otherwise, they are GREAT practice and solo performance tools. If you were able to get the looper to work for your needs and I would be in awe of your accomplishment.
Joe D

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 03:00 PM

I'm not interested in them for practicing purposes. I've worked with a lot of drummers who are relatively comfortable using click tracks, even live. Its a PITA though to set up. I used some sequences in the past and as I said even Ableton Live. Ultimately it was too much crap to lug around and set up for me. If there were a time based click/metronome the looper could be synced to, that would work.

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2016, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I'm not interested in them for practicing purposes. I've worked with a lot of drummers who are relatively comfortable using click tracks, even live. Its a PITA though to set up. I used some sequences in the past and as I said even Ableton Live. Ultimately it was too much crap to lug around and set up for me. If there were a time based click/metronome the looper could be synced to, that would work.

You need the mother of all loopers;

Loop Station - Review of the Boss RC-300 Looper Pedal

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2016, 03:49 PM

This might address specifically what you want to do;

**kris** · 03-05-2016, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

More than Boomerang?

boomerang is also great I think.

**s1track3d** · 03-05-2016, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I'm trying to come up with ways to play some complex stuff live with a band that require extra parts.

It sounds like you need something like Ableton Live or Mainstage3 (Apple). I know that NIN uses Mainstage3 to fill in a lot of extra sounds and parts live, there are some good youtube video detailing their process.

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

This might address specifically what you want to do;

Very cool. I kept expecting and hoping he would show examples of playing and looping live with a band though. This is more of what I want and need. Though I've been very excited parring my live rig down to a pedal - AX8 and two (or one) cab. But now, if I were to go this route suddenly I'd have to bring a mixing board and more speakers! Yikes. Damn. Thanks!

**henryrobinett** · 03-05-2016, 04:25 PM

I have Ableton, though I haven't upgraded in a long time. I also will probably need to get a new MacBook. And bring a PA. Yikes.

**kenbennett** · 03-05-2016, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I've never in my life used one. Not really. I'm trying to come up with ways to play some complex stuff live with a band that require extra parts. Does it depend on a metronome or click? Would the drummer be required to wear headphones for the click? If u play one 8 bar phrase and loop that how otherwise does it keep accurate time?

Basic dumb questions.

Mine has a click that is sort of like a kick drum. You can turn it on or off. Live, when it's on, it just blends in with the drummer. No headphones needed.

Mine also lets you start and stop slightly ahead of time, and it waits till the next downbeat to actually do it. So your loop of how-ever-many bars repeats correctly. Same thing when you record subsequent layers.

**HeyNow** · 03-05-2016, 04:52 PM

The Boomerang doesn''t look like it can store loops in between power off and on.

No MIDI or USB

**Ian_S** · 03-05-2016, 06:49 PM

That is correct, there is no storage in the Boomerang. Turn it off and your loops are gone. It has several different ways of looping. You can get four loops and overdubs on each. The sync mode allows you to set up a simple beat on loop three, then the other loops will fall in time with it. Or you can play the loops freely. It's great for practise. I took it out live once, but I realised that it was more difficult to handle in a live situation. A lot of rehearsal needed!

**Stevebol** · 03-05-2016, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Very cool. I kept expecting and hoping he would show examples of playing and looping live with a band though. This is more of what I want and need. Though I've been very excited parring my live rig down to a pedal - AX8 and two (or one) cab. But now, if I were to go this route suddenly I'd have to bring a mixing board and more speakers! Yikes. Damn. Thanks!

Check out page 27 of the manual;

RC-300 Owner's Manual :: RC-300 :: Manuals :: Support :: Roland

I'm not sure if you can send a metronome click independently to the mains, subs or phones but the internal rhythms might account for that. You can send just a hat at a desired tempo wherever you want- main, subs or phones. The metronome sound is annoying anyway.
I wouldn't assume you'd need a mixer and more speakers. Probably not.
I'd ask this guy who made the vid to make sure. He's really up on the full capabilities of the RC 300.
It didn't occur to me to use a loop pedal with storage instead of a laptop for playing live. I have close to 30 drum tracks done at this point. I'm using FL Studio. For practical purposes I could just make long audio files of each track and use a looper. I don't need the looping capabilities so I'd probably get a small looper with big storage. The only thing is I'll have to get the mix right of the sounds. I'm not good at that.
Anyway, the RC 300 will do exactly what you want I believe without the need for additional gear. I'd have to check to see if another Boss or looper would but I doubt it.

**Doctor Jeff** · 03-06-2016, 10:06 AM

The Ditto X4 does have tap tempo and has Midi and 2 input connections, so you could connect a metronome if you wanted. It is set up so the second loop automatically syncs with the first one, though you can change that with a switch on the back.

You can also save and import loops via a computer--however, you can only have one active loop at a time on the X4. I think it would be cumbersome to do in a performance situation, as you would have to have a computer with you and connect then download, then disconnect. (I don't know if this is possible with an iPad, which I use as my music reader onstage.) If you use a computer already it might be feasible.

Here's the manual, in case you're interested. There are also a lot of youtube videos demonstrating the product.

http://cdn-downloads.tcelectronic.co...ooper_m_en.pdf

**henryrobinett** · 03-06-2016, 12:12 PM

The best option is probably to go back to using Live. I'll need a new laptop and where there's no real PA bring my own, a trigger for the kick or hat. I was thinking that the audience, fickle jazz guys for the most part, would be more interested in seeing the construction, or apparent live construction happening before their eyes. But the best option, probably for me, is to go Ableton Live.