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For the most part I've always been underwhelmed by GC's store stock. They sure carry a lot of kids guitars ,amps, and pedals. They occasionally use to have a guiatr of interest, but not any more.
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01-17-2016 05:46 PM
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Well I have shopped a bit at GC and probably will continue to do so. However, I wouldn't want to sign an arbitration agreement anywhere I worked. Period.
If lawsuits from disgruntled employees were the reason GC might go out of business, they would have some serious management problems.
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not just lawsuits, but class action lawsuits.
Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
and is that the standard response to being "disgruntled"?
has GC explained their motivation for this, or why they think it's important at this particular point in time?
i can think of a couple of 2016 risk drivers, but i'll hold my powder.
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Reminds me of these scenes...
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From HuffPost article: Originally Posted by fumblefingers
The agreement, a copy of which was obtained by The Huffington Post, forces employees to relinquish their rights to sue the company in class action lawsuits over wage violations, workplace discrimination and unjust firings, among other disputes.
Sean Lynch, a sales employee at the company's Las Vegas store, said he and his colleagues were told they must sign the agreement by end of day Friday or they forfeit their jobs.
"It was imposed on us and we have absolutely no choice," Lynch told HuffPost.
Arbitration agreements have become highly controversial for the way they hamstring employees and weaken their legal power. By sending disputes to an arbitrator, they force workers to pursue their claims individually and outside of court, preempting any collective action. And even though they're supposed to be neutral third parties, arbitrators are often cozy with the companies that workers are squaring off with, as The New York Times detailed in a recent series.
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I tried to respond to this from my tablet but at first the auto correct got it garbled and then my clumsy efforts got it eaten entirely Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
To paraphrase my previous post ...
In fairness, the current management have only been in control for a short time. The previous owners essentially walked away from their mountain of debt by turning over the company to their largest creditor. At that point the hole that they had dug was so deep that they couldn't even raise money by selling junk bonds. So Ares Capital inherited a failed business with all of the problems associated with that ant they are now trying to resurrect the company at least to the point where they can recapture some of the money that they had loaned to the previous owners. So while these may not be problems from the current management, it is undoubtedly a very fragile enterprise.
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Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I tried to respond to this from my tablet but at first the auto correct got it garbled and then my clumsy efforts got it eaten entirely
To paraphrase my previous post ...
In fairness, the current management have only been in control for a short time. The previous owners essentially walked away from their mountain of debt by turning over the company to their largest creditor. At that point the hole that they had dug was so deep that they couldn't even raise money by selling junk bonds. So Ares Capital inherited a failed business with all of the problems associated with that ant they are now trying to resurrect the company at least to the point where they can recapture some of the money that they had loaned to the previous owners. So while these may not be problems from the current management, it is undoubtedly a very fragile enterprise.
What I heard from someone the employees are part of the problem and that's why guitar flippers are in GC all the time. So much miss priced merchandise like custom shop guitars miss labeled and priced as a standard model. Hear they have big problems with vintage gear being fakes or having fake parts. Guitar flippers are making money off GC lack of management.
What I hear is GC is just trying to raise cash right now any way they can and are laying people off as well. I heard it said a year of so ago they were considering going online only may keep key stores open as warehouse and shipping centers.
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Originally Posted by docbop
I recall seeing a Shelly Park gypsy guitar used in a Guitar Center at a very attractive price. Still kind of kicking myself for not picking it up even though I wasn't looking for that style of instrument.
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Originally Posted by docbop
I've read, more than once, that GC owes Fender millions, and that is one reason Fender is looking at direct sales.
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Heard the same thing and hope Fender doesn't do it. You'll pay more since you can't make deals or trades, but the little experiments I've seen of Fender direct didn't impress me. To me the advantage of online would be if I could order any neck on any body with any pickup combo that would be nice, but the experiments they only offered a few ordering options.
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There's a lot of politics involved. And no, not just between the company(s) and the workers. Right here in the comments.
The Huff Post will take once side. Other publications another. We as individuals usually share at least a portion of their world view. On and on it goes.
I, too, of course have a POV. But in my career I was pragmatic. My organization (connected to a major research university) had their official stance, but when it came to anything that effected their bottom line they took the same hard line as anyone else would and must. They looked out for their own interests.
My situation helped me see that and forced (early on when I was young and naive) me to face what was and separate it from what I wished was. A hard truth to face when one is idealistic.
Basically I learned that you could do well and have ideals, but you also had to protect yourself. And the key to that was having something that others needed. Then you had bargaining power -- what the GC workers basically lack, and what the company wants very much for them to continue to lack.
In my case it was almost funny. I invented at first one, then several, imaging techniques useful to science and medicine. In the first case I published my findings in a journal. A large corporation took note and asked for the right to use it. I agreed with conditions that aided my own professional growth. Then I went to the university and asked for their support in setting up a lab to do further research. They declined because of my lack of letters so I set up the lab myself, in my own home and using my own monies. Thereafter I did not publish my findings, but instead sold the service.
When it got funny was when the institution who paid my salary asked me why others were getting services from me that were not available to them 'in house.' I reminded them that they had turned down my offer for research monies, that I'd done the research on my own time in my, and that if they wanted 'the goodies' they could hire my company's services like anyone else.
That is where leverage comes in. I had what they wanted and could get nowhere else. But the leverage also required me having the temerity to stand up for myself. They threatened, I said I'd go elsewhere. They cajoled and offered sweeteners, I said "thank you, but no." So in a sense I left them no choice. But my demands were not unfair. I looked out for their interests, but did not allow myself to be walked over.
That all came to a head in the `70s and `80s -- before the class action legal BS, the signing over of rights in advance BS, and the rest of it. When that stuff started to occur the university's legal service sent me a document to sign signing over all my research. I told them to stuff it and that was that.
No matter what we read none of the legal tactics by either side -- the company or the workers -- has complete "right" on its side. It is just an old, old battle being fought with new weapons -- the paper war.
From what I see the lawyers win in every case. Everyone else loses.
And there I reveal my own politics.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Say yes to all three.
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The heart of man (and woman) is something else.
I was in to motorcycles for a time. I can't tell you how many times I saw and heard of people crashing their motorcycles and then colluding with the motorcycle shop to rip off the insurance company.
I used to race them and watched many destroy their engines racing. The engines had warranties. Guest what? Many (too many) motorcyclists colluded with motorcycle shops to take advantage of warranties by saying the engine failed.
CEOs, workers, consumers, and the common man all tend to look out for themselves.
I can just as easily see Guitar Center CEOs taking advantage of their positions and stuffing their pockets as I can see the first line employee trying to "get over" every chance he gets.
It is just so hard trying to get everyone on a level playing field when someone always wants to take advantage of the set-up. Really hard...
So I don't blame Guitar Center for doing this, and I also don't blame the employees for not wanting sign. It is indeed a jungle.
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We want the benefits from taking risks, but when the venture fails we want someone else to pay to clean up the mess. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Next time I'm in Dave's Guitars or Lidgett's or Willie's American guitars I'll ask the guys there if they have to sign a binding arbitration agreement. And how the employees like the way they're treated. Heck, I might even talk to the owners themselves and ask if there's a class action problem, since they're in the store 90% of the time I visit.
Seems like the issues under discussion here are a BIG business problem, not a business problem.
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If GCs folding means that the local Mom and Pops survive, that's a good thing. They opened one of those things a mile or so from the principal local music store in our town. Terrible place to shop (loud unpleasant music blasting at all times). I made it a point to buy more stuff from the local guys after GC moved in.
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I would never buy a guitar from GC -- they've all been wanked upon. On occasion I will buy accessories from GC. I would not rejoice in GC going out of business. Choice for consumers is a good thing, no?
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I dont understand what the employees at GC are guilty of? Seems that some people here blame them for something they have not done. I think that signing away any rights in any circumstance are quite bad. Maybe they will soon have to sign off their breaks, paid overtime and vaction too just to keep or get a job.
Ted
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Originally Posted by nopedals
They don't have GCs in Canuckistan, so I've watched this debate from the other side of the fence, but I've heard many people say their M&P shops were awful: poor selection, big markups, and unfriendly staff. I think that competition is a good thing and that the best smaller shops would survive anyway.
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My gut says to me it's probably a pre-emptive move, GC knows they are going to do something that is going to tick off employees and want to avoid a trial(s). Originally Posted by Teddyfm
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Maybe something they've already done that might get traction as a lawsuit. Originally Posted by docbop
Union busting?
Meet The Former Teamster Hired To Keep Guitar Center Employees From Unionizing
Minimum wage went up in a lot of places. Perhaps GC will be stubborn about that?
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