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Hello,
I have a 2006 EASTMAN STRING guitar model AR-810. I have never done my own set-up aside of ajusting the string height using the nuts on the bridge and adjusting the intonation by moving the bridge. I usually rely on a luthier to do this type of things, even on my strat. The last time I was not too happy with the result so I want to try it myself now.
I have fret buzzing around fret 10-11-12-13. Worst on 11. No buzzing on other frets and I have some clearance between the strings and neck when I press the string at fret 12. In order to avoid fret buzzing on fret 11 to 13 I need a quite high action over these frets by adjusting the bridge. My guitar is played mostly acoustic with a Dunlop 207 thick pick and 13-57 bronze strings. Even the single notes are often played with ''intensity'' so I need some clearance in order to avoid fret buzzing. Tomorrow I will buy a small steel ruler to measure the clearance between the strings and neck. And yes, these days I play a lot on frets 10 to 13.
The last time my guitar went to the luthier he told me that he levelled the frets and did some crowing as required. I never heard anything bad about this luthier from other persons.
This is my hypothesis: I will decrease my neck relief ( I think that it means my neck will be more straight right?) then I will adjust the action at the bridge. Does it make sense? That way the angle between the fret board and the string pressed around fret 12 will increase but my overall action aroud fret 5 will not be too high. Makes sense?
My question are:
1- Should I turn my trussrod clockwise or counterclockwise?
2- Should I have all my strings loose before doing that?
3-Any other tips welcome
Thank you,
Daniel
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01-07-2016 10:47 PM
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Hi Daniel,
you will want to loosen the strings when making truss rod adjustments.
Hold the guitar so the headstock is near you and the body of the guitar is farther beyond that, you will want to turn the truss rod 1/4 turn to the right (righty - tighty). Do this in i1/4 turn increments until you've reduced the bow in the neck. It is not uncommon to have to make seasonal changes to the truss rod and it is quite easy after you do it a couple of times.
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I would also add look up a tutorial on Youtube about this subject. It's really not that hard or scary!
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I am not too sure what you mean by ''turn to the right'' is this clockwise just like when you are making a screw tighter?
Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
Dont you think that tighting the rod will make my neck more concave and will increase the distance between my 6th fret and the strings? What I have to do is the converse I think. I would like to make my neck more straight.
Thank you for your help,
Daniel
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Yes, by turning to the right (clockwise) when looking down at the headstock, you will be making the next straighter. Of course if it is already straight, turning to the right will give the neck a bow. You don't want that.
Before you tighten it, give it a short turn to the left to make sure it turns easily.
However, that said, if you are trying to get rid of the buzz, I would try first to loosen the truss rod (turn left ie counter clockwise ) because that will give the neck a bit of relief for the strings to move. I'm skeptical though that this will solve your problem. Truss rod adjustments usually do not have much effect that high up on the neck, but it is an easy thing to try that is reversible.Last edited by AlainJazz; 01-08-2016 at 02:45 AM.
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I'd do 1/8 turns. And, wait a while, maybe 20 to 30 minutes. See what happens, and do again as necessary, but not to a point where significant resistance occurs. If you've gone several clicks, and nothing happens, I'd begin to wonder if it was too loose. If it gets really tight, stop. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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Yes it does, other things being assumed. But if the buzzing is only in that area, and not beyond, you might end up with a high action beyond that area. Hard to tell with looking down the neck in person. Of course if you don't play beyond that area, it might not be an issue for you. Originally Posted by DanTheMan
Another thing: How much relief ("bow") already exists?
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I find I also prefer a fairly straight neck even if it means I have to raise the bridge higher than I really like so that action is good well up the neck, with a reasonable but not overly powerful attack.
I sometimes think there's a tendency for adjustment instructions to be targeted towards heavy handed acoustic flat pickers that never play past the 10th fret.
I recently had a 2005 Eastman AR805CE set up with a full fret re-level. I think there's a tendency for those guitars to bring out the sound of any fret buzz or string ring sound. On mine the luthier also put some putty into the tailpiece hinge. He also put a card stock damper between the tailpiece and the tailpiece ebony cover. He's at a shop where they have been selling Eastman guitars for 10 years and has seen quite a few of them.
Danielle
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Check out Dan Erlewines tapes and books, though as mentioned above there are may others. A simple set up is simple if you know what you should be doing, in what order and why. Not being quite sure in which direction one should move the nut to straighten/loosen the neck action gives me to believe that a bit of information a priori could be quite useful. Good luck!
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For low action without fret rattle throughout the entire neck, a nearly flat fret surface plane is needed. Not perfectly flat, as some " relief " or a slight forward bow is often needed near the first 3 or 4 frets frets for the lowest action. This slight bow is controlled by adj. the truss rod nut. Loosen the nut to add more relief or forward bow. Tighten the nut to reduce the relief or straighten the neck. Sometimes tightening the nut will have little effect and not counter the neck bow. For this reason, it is a good idea to help the neck to bend the way you want it to go by pulling back on the neck (not the headstock) and then tighten the nut a little at a time. Think of the truss rod nut as a means of holding the neck in position after it has been forced into place. With the strings at full tension, place a capo behind the first fret and press a string down at the 12th fret. There should be just the slightest clearance of the string over the frets between these points. The good thing is truss rods don't often need adj. on most guitars. From reading your description, it sounds like you have a high 14th fret or a low 11th fret. To check for a high fret use a short ( 6" ) steel ruler or straight edge. Place the straight edge on the fret surface and see if there is any rocking on a high fret. If the ruler rocks all over, you need to level and crown your frets. After the frets are leveled and crowned, if your nut is cut at the right height low action can be set at the bridge.
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I think doing your own set up is a fun & useful skill to develop. Nothing to be afraid of if you keep the changes small.
Some apply lots of science & measuring to it.
Some hacks (like myself) do it by touch & eyeball and common sense. I get great results just by fiddling a bit till things are working well. Sighting down the fretboard to see approximately how straight the neck is (or isn't) is a starting point. Holding down the low E string on the first & 15th frets to check relief gives a decent idea of how much relief the neck has. I don't take off my strings to do small adjustments, but it does take some time for the full effect of a truss rod adjustment to manifest.
Generally speaking, adjust neck first, then action at the bridge, then intonation.
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This was the basic text at the guitar building and repair school where I used work.
Guitar Player Repair Guide
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I too prefer a fairly straight neck with very little relief. Originally Posted by DanielleOM
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That's what I've been using since the first edition. Originally Posted by kenbennett
Asking if this book is any good is like asking the Pope if he's Catholic.
Just get it. You won't regret it, I promess!
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I am very sensitive to the way a neck feel, maybe too much because I was spoiled somehow.
It is in my opinion mandatory to develop the skill to do at least basic setup on one's guitar.
Fret levelling and nut cutting is however something I still leave to the pro.
Truss rod adjustment on the other hand is something I do with care and very small increment.Last edited by vinlander; 01-09-2016 at 11:43 AM. Reason: typo
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There are two approaches to set up: hit and miss, or all the way. I got frustrated with hit-and-miss, so decided to do a full-blown finger-board set up.
I solved this problem by getting some basic equipment. A notched rule for assessing if the neck is straight. The notches on the straight-edge rule are spaced appropriately for the frets on your guitar.
Second I got a little tool from Amazon from a company called "Fretguru" (see picture) that has straight sides of varying lengths so that I can check for high frets by laying the edges across 3 frets at a time and see where it "rocks" on the middle fret. This tool also is marked for measuring the action. It's a handy little tool.
Third, I got a sanding block radiused appropriately for my guitar's fretboard (12 inch radius) and the appropriate abrasive paper for leveling my frets, along with a fret crowning file and generic all-purpose fret file.
Last, I got non-tacky paper tape to protect the wood on my guitar.
I unstrung the guitar, and adjusted the truss rod until the neck was perfectly straight (using the notched straight-edge). I then used the FretGuru tool to "rock" the frets and flag the ones that were clearly high. Using a sharpie, I colored the tops of these frets in red. I also used a black sharpie to mark all the frets. I used the fret file to bring these down lower, though they don't have to go all the way, just low enough so that the next step is easier.
With the right abrasive on the radiuses sanding block, I then slowly sanded the whole fingerboard until all the sharpie ink was gone from the frets. At that point, all the frets should be level, as born out by tests with the fret-rocker.
Next I re-crowned the frets using a fret crowning file and buffed them with some steel wool.
I removed all the tape, wiped down the guitar, restrung it and brought it up to pitch. Then I tightened the truss rod until, again, per the notched straight-edge, the neck was straight or perhaps had just a hair of relief. Using the adjustment nuts on the bridge, I then adjusted the height of the strings until they rode at the height I wanted.
To my everlasting delight, not a single fret buzzed and the guitar played wonderfully! I could not believe that my very first-ever attempt at a complete fret-level-and-crown had been so successful. No doubt, the fact that I obsessively studied this online everywhere I could, and took the time to buy the right tools, thought through the job, and went slowly, step by step, made it happen. But many a budget archtop can be made into a superb player by this kind of work.
I don't know what you'll need to do, but I'm glad I've learned how to do this job on my own guitars. A well done fret level and crown along with setting the action can have an amazing impact.
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I agree. I learnt everything I know about setups from this book. It's excellent. Originally Posted by LtKojak
That's what I've been using since the first edition.
Asking if this book is any good is like asking the Pope if he's Catholic.
Just get it. You won't regret it, I promess!
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I remember that you had issues with getting clear tone from that guitar. How is your Eastman now? Originally Posted by DanielleOM
On mine I changed the tail piece for a Benedetto and it improved the tone.
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[QUOld youTE=Matt Cushman;603937]To check for a high fret use a short ( 6" ) steel ruler or straight edge. Place the straight edge on the fret surface and see if there is any rocking on a high fret. If the ruler rocks all over, you need to level and crown your frets. After the frets are leveled and crowned, if your nut is cut at the right height low action can be set at the bridge.[/QUOTE]
I will check it at fret 12 and higher. One question I have is how could you check for uneven frets in the middle of the neck if the neck is bowed? Do I have to use the truss rod first to make it flat?
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Great thread. Just ordered the repair guide.
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I will check it at fret 12 and higher. One question I have is how could you check for uneven frets in the middle of the neck if the neck is bowed? Do I have to use the truss rod first to make it flat?[/QUOTE] Originally Posted by DanTheMan
First set your neck so it is nearly straight when it is tuned up. Then you can use a short straight edge to check for high frets, the best length for your straight edge is one that spans only three frets at a time. You can get a " fret rocker " made for this, or just improvise a few straight edges of varying lengths. Check it throughout the fretboard with the guitar tuned up.
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DantheMan, what does the string action measure at the 12th fret? You have to fret it at the first fret to get an accurate reading.
I ask this because if you play hard you may have to raise the string action anyway that may be too low currently for the way you play. The great Freddie Green required 10mm string action for the way he played, according to legend.
For all I know, what is high action to you is normal to me.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-10-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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After a full fret re-level and crowning my 2005 vintage AR805CE is much better now. That's the guitar I take for an acoustic song circle (no mics or amplification) that I go to. Originally Posted by DanTheMan
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