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Quite recent video that I have not seen.
Hope to see the real Blue Tear Drop at NAMM 2016.
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12-22-2015 08:57 PM
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Victor makes great guitars. I think being an excellent guitar himself really helps him understand what guitarist thinks feel right and matters. Love my VB.
Last edited by docbop; 12-23-2015 at 02:39 AM.
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I like Victor Baker's own line of guitars and hope that he doesn't give it up for the D'Angelico gig. He is a wonderful guitarist too. At this point in time, I feel no excitement for any guitars labelled "D'Angelico" except for the real D'Angelico. Don't mean to be Debbie Downer or Negative Ned; that poor D'Angelico name has been through the wringer a few times. There's no more juice in it.
Blue is so Scott Chinery and 2012 though. Blue was a hot colour for guitars in 2011/2012 but I gather that nobody wants Blue guitars any longer. The Blue Ibanez AFJ91 didn't sell so well. Ibanez dropped the colour.
Vic, get back to building your own line of guitars, man. I would rather own a Victor Baker guitar than a fake D'Angelico any day. My wish is for the D'Angelico label to be retired so that there is some respect left for John's legacy. So, no, I don't wish the new D'Angelico company well.
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+1 on everything Jabs said....
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Does anyone go so far as to think that this business relationship puts VB himself in the cheeseball category, or is he entirely forgiven?
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Yes, jmo.
Originally Posted by rpguitar
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Cheeseball but also forgiven as I know it can be hard to resist... Originally Posted by rpguitar
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You'd have to ding Michael Lewis (who makes wonderful guitars), the legacy of Arturo Valdez, Jim Triggs, Heritage, etc. Originally Posted by rpguitar
So I'm going to say forgiven too because I don't really want to ding them (I tried a Valdez d'Angelico once - he's definitely forgiven)
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I personally don't give a damn for tradition or who's name is on the guitar, if it's a well made playable guitar for a reasonable price then to me that's all that matters.
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Cheeseball. When it was only high end luthier built guitars that were getting the DA name on the headstock, an argument could be made that it was being done with reverence. These days the owner of the DA name is marketing cheap Asian made dreadnaughts with DA headstocks. Any luthier worth his salt who gets involved with that company is a cheeseball.
Last edited by Stringswinger; 12-23-2015 at 11:40 AM.
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Ouch! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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The name on the headstock doesn't mean so much to me, but I would have trouble with that pointy thing on the end.
I'm not a huge fan of blue guitars, but that is a pretty burst.
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I can't understand all the D'Angelico copies.
I mean if it's a guitar you're proud of, put your own bleepin' name on the headstock.
it's kinda like when Sears was making Strads back in the day, what's the point other than to move merchandise.
I'm sure Baker's a good builder, but what can this be other than a money grab? [same with all the other DA copies]
if you own one and like it, good for you, but I'm out...
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Most of us know the quality of Mr. Bakers work is top of the line.And the pieces he will produce will be just that. These should not be thought lesser of because of the oriental pieces produced for the general public.There will be very few pieces made just like the previous builds. I doubt very much that D"Angelico is actually making money on Mr. Bakers pieces. But more advertising and name recognition to move the lesser guitars. The previous builders also did a fine job with their creations. We all know that these are not the real thing. But they are certainly beautiful to look at and a joy to play. Thank you r_cc_c for showing us the video.
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Interesting. So it's okay for a consortium of investors to buy the rights to Fender and Gibson guitars (several different times, in both cases), but not D'Angelico?
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God forbid a talented Luthier make some money.
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Fender and Gibson are factories that make mass produced guitars. D'Angelico was an artist (artisan?). There is a difference. I have nothing against anyone making a buck. If a luthier is really that good, his guitars should sell for a pretty good price with his own name on the headstock.
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> We would never had heard of Arturo Valdez, Michael Lewis,or possibly even Jim Triggs if they hadn't gotten involved with D'Angelico.Jim Triggs,was known for his running the Gibson custom shop. But they all gained in notoriety to some degree,good or bad. Do we think less of Triggs work? How can we when we ourselves own and brag about the L5's,Johnny Smith's and such that Triggs produced while at Gibson. And those guitars were not mass produced.Like you said,everyone has to make a buck. The last two decades hasn't been easy for one man shops. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
And Victor's do, though, as a player himself, he makes guitars priced for players, not accountants.
One of them is in the hands of arguably one of the best young players around today, Gilad Hekselman.
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I am guessing that many who defend VB and the folks of D'Angelico guitars do not know the back story behind all of this.
When John D'Angelico died, his heirs wanted Jimmy D'Aquisto to get the shop and the rights to the name (as John D'Angelico wished, but having died unexpectedly had not properly planned for). Jimmy had no cash and was told to find a business partner to bring some cash to the table, so as to give the heirs something of value. At the time there was some goodwill value to the name as John D'Angelico was making some money on strings bearing his name and there was value to the tools in the shop.
Jimmy was young and unsophisticated. He put the word out about the situation and a scumbag lawyer (who was a customer) came up with the cash and became Jimmy's crooked partner (stealing from Jimmy the whole time they were associated together). When Jimmy had enough and told the shyster that he wanted out, the shyster dissolved the partnership leaving Jimmy with nothing except a few of John's hand tools. The shyster kept the D'Angelico name and all of the valuable machinery.
The shyster sold off the machinery and sold the D'Angelico name to GHS strings, a Midwestern string company that wanted the brandname for string sales. Fast forward 30 years and GHS decided to see if there was value in the name for guitar sales. (I know for a fact that Michael Lewis paid GHS $3,000 per guitar for the rights to build DA Replicas). The son of a successful businessman who founded a drink company (Arizona Iced Tea) decided to use some of Daddy's seed money to buy the name from GHS. Now they market all kinds of low end Asian made factory guitars under the brand.
IMO, the distinguished name has now been tarnished, and considering the history, there is an element of bad karma as well.
It is a free Country and people can make their own choices. I would spend my guitar dollars elsewhere. There are amazing luthiers who put their own name on the headstocks whose guitars are more worthy of support.
There is my 2 cents. YMMV
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Victor was doing that and made great guitars at reasonable prices for hand made guitars. I got lucky and he had a guitar that was never picked up so he sold it at a discount that's how I got mine. Victor is making D'Angelico New Yorker's only and each is hand made. He moved to a larger shop and hired a couple more apprentices to handle the extra volume. He did it because they gave him all the D'Angelico notes and other templates to study, for a luthier a great opportunity to learn from what a master left behind. Victor said he will go back to making his own guitars again, but has announced a date.
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I have two of his guitars. You can see all the little decisions he makes and I think they're all smart and/or practical. And I, personally, like his choice of woods.
I'm super stoked he gets to build guitars based off actual measurements. Great learning experience for him.
He'll be back to doing his thing - which was always changing. Different neck joins. Or armrest carves. He's been exploring. Hopefully, he doesn't step back and just design and let his employees do the builds.
A builder who has done his own stuff and has played the NY jazz scene building D'Angelico recreations off of actual D'Angelico measurements - what's wrong with that recipe? There's a lot of jazz energy in NYC/NJ. I'd personally rather have one of his own designs, but if I wanted a new guitar based off of D'Angelico, I don't know how many other options there would be - Triggs?
There's a multi-million $ business of building Les Paul's allegedly historically accurate to the real Bursts, but they aren't even close and they cost $6-15k new.
I'm wondering if there is a curve wall before the tear drop alcove where there is a sharp point. Wonder how those walls affect sound waves in the body.
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13 ply binding! And a "poly" finish. Love the shading on that blue burst!
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 12-23-2015 at 06:50 PM.
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Victor Baker is a guy who is successfully doing two of the least financially rewarding things: playing jazz and building guitars. Why in the world should he stop doing what he wants to do just because it offends someone else's idea of what he should be doing with his life?
There have been a lot of guitars made by a lot of people with the name "D'Angelico" , some great some just average. It's not like this talented luthier is going to ruin the brand. He's trying to make them better.
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I don't see too many of the $11,000 Master Built D'As flying off the shelves of the major retailers. Just have a look out there. The brand value has been diluted and it's just not happening at that price.
When Victor first announced his arrangement with the company, I commented on his Facebook page that it was great, but I hoped it wouldn't mean they'd price his hand-built guitars out of reach. He "liked" the post.
Oh well.
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