Fender Tweed Deluxe and jazz

[Herbie]

Tweed Deluxes have a great tone for jazz or any other style short of metal, but they are low power and relatively low headroom.

When I had one, I never would have considered it to be loud enough for a jazz gig. I would bring my Deluxe Reverb instead.

Great for home use however.

The speaker has a big role in the flexibility of Your Tweed Deluxe combo. I used mine some years so that when I needed it as rock amp, I used the low efficiency Weber 12A125. I never play so loud that I could use the amp distortion but the od-pedals sound better with amp running a bit hotter.

For jazz gigs I changed the speaker to a bit more sensitive Weber 12F150. It kept the sound and amp cleaner so that I could play with a band with a drummer.

Then I got bored to change the speakers all the time and left the low headroom alnico speaker in. For jazz gigs I use Quilter TB202 mounted in a small self made combo.

I could manage with one 5e3 amp if I used it as a head and had two or more cabs for different speakers. But I like combos more!

[bluejaybill]

Well, let me clarify this then, that my tweed Deluxe was an actual late '50's with a Jensen. If we are talking about current iterations with efficient speakers, that's quite different, I could see making that work.

I have a Fat Jimmy Gigmaster 20 that is 20watts, somewhat less loud than a Deluxe Reverb. But with the efficient speaker it could easily do a jazz gig. That amp has characteristics of tweed, brown and BF circuits, it's kind of its own thing, but has more mids and less scooped than a DR. So for me it's a better jazz sound than a DR. Great amp. Oh, and I don't mind a hint of growl when I dig in, even with an archtop.

The 30 watt version with 6L6's would probably be all the amp I would ever need even for loud clean jazz.

[JCat]

I use the bright channel (low input) and I can reduce bass turning the normal channel volume up.

I am not sure how typical this is. I have changed almost all the capacitors to lower ones to get the lows tighter.

I get it Herbie,

Just for general reference:

My amp (Fender) got two channels labeled "Instrument" and "Mic". Each channel got two input jacks labeled "1" and "2".

The "Instrument" channel is brighter than the "Mic" channel, but got about the same output. The respective Inputs "2" are darker and not as loud as the respective Inputs "1".

If a 5E3 clone got a different Input configuration, then it's not really a clone, but a different amp.

If a 5E3 clone got the same Input configuration but with different labeling, it's a bit confusing perhaps:

There is no "Normal" channel (what's normal or not depends on the individual user). But guitar players typically plug into the "Instrument" channel, that is also the brighter channel (so for most guitar players bright is normal). The choice of Input "1" or "2" depends on venue and pickups.

The "Mic" channel is typically the "unused" channel within the guitar community. (Note that this amp can be used for many other things, like for example a harp). Guitar players use the "unused" channel in many different ways, to alter EQ and texture or to control external reverb.

If I would plug my guitar into "Mic" I could reduce bass by turning up the (unused) Instrument channel. But I wouldn't do that and I can see why the amp would have to be modified for this purpose.

Some players enjoy the added bass from the Mic channel (me too, when playing loud) but I can see why somebody would customize the amp like yours.

Note that EQ (always, regardless of amp, but in different ways) depends on output volume, pickups, guitar electronics and speaker.

Now, when all is said and done;
Some like treble some like bass, but at the end of the day it's always about the mids and there are so many flavors. I really do think it's impossible to get a bad tone from this amp

[Herbie]

I get it Herbie,

Just for general reference:

My amp (Fender) got two channels labeled "Instrument" and "Mic". Each channel got two input jacks labeled "1" and "2".

The "Instrument" channel is brighter than the "Mic" channel, but got about the same output. The respective Inputs "2" are darker and not as loud as the respective Inputs "1".

If a 5E3 clone got a different Input configuration, then it's not really a clone, but a different amp.

If a 5E3 clone got the same Input configuration but with different labeling, it's a bit confusing perhaps:

There is no "Normal" channel (what's normal or not depends on the individual user). But guitar players typically plug into the "Instrument" channel, that is also the brighter channel (so for most guitar players bright is normal). The choice of Input "1" or "2" depends on venue and pickups.

The "Mic" channel is typically the "unused" channel within the guitar community. (Note that this amp can be used for many other things, like for example a harp). Guitar players use the "unused" channel in many different ways, to alter EQ and texture or to control external reverb.

If I would plug my guitar into "Mic" I could reduce bass by turning up the (unused) Instrument channel. But I wouldn't do that and I can see why the amp would have to be modified for this purpose.

Some players enjoy the added bass from the Mic channel (me too, when playing loud) but I can see why somebody would customize the amp like yours.

Note that EQ (always, regardless of amp, but in different ways) depends on output volume, pickups, guitar electronics and speaker.

Now, when all is said and done;
Some like treble some like bass, but at the end of the day it's always about the mids and there are so many flavors. I really do think it's impossible to get a bad tone from this amp

Some clone chassis’ (mine included) have the Mic and Instrument texts changed with Normal and Bright. Playing around with them is useful, there is surprisingly different sounds and feels in them.

I agree that it is impossible to get bad tone from it, but I have to admit that it took a bit from me to get used to 5e3’s wild nature with my ES-175s. It is so different from other amps I was used to.

And although it is simple circuit, it is easy to tweak without the soldering iron. The tube and speaker choices can make it very different.

[ruger9]

Well, let me clarify this then, that my tweed Deluxe was an actual late '50's with a Jensen. If we are talking about current iterations with efficient speakers, that's quite different, I could see making that work.
z.

But wasn't tons of jazz recorded with the vintage tweed Deluxe, with drummers? Midnight Blue comes to mind...

[Cunamara]

But wasn't tons of jazz recorded with the vintage tweed Deluxe, with drummers? Midnight Blue comes to mind...

Sure, but in a studio setting with the musicians possibly in isolation booths or with baffles to improve separation. Well, Now that I think about it I don't know exactly how RGF always recorded then. His original studio was in the living room of his parents' home, IIRC, with the musicians standing around a central mic and self-balancing.

I think jazz drummers in those days often played with a lighter touch and bassists were playing acoustic uprights, so the wh9le dynamic of the band was probably a lot lower in the studio.

[bluejaybill]

But wasn't tons of jazz recorded with the vintage tweed Deluxe, with drummers? Midnight Blue comes to mind...

Yes, at Rudy Van Gelder's recording studio. That's a different case, being in the studio of course where everything is miked up. Great tones for sure!

My original point was, for (realtively) clean jazz, (again with a vintage tweed Deluxe), there is a limited sweet spot, after which you are headed for distortion. In that sweet spot in can surely sound great, but for me that spot was considerably below gigging volume. Home use, very small venues, and recording are different than the gigs I was talking about. For me a DR was the minimum.

Clones, more efficient speakers, tweaked circuits etc, those are different situations. YMMV etc. Didn't mean to step on any 5E3 fans' toes! For the record, tweed Bassmen and Twins are among my favorite amps.