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When I first began acquiring guitars, I sought to learn about all the different tones out there. I thought it would help me find my voice. I started with the classics – Strat, Tele, LP, 335, 175, many others. At that point in my knowledge, “archtop” was a single type of guitar and a Gibson ES-775 filled the slot. As time went on, I branched into offshoots of the classics. I built Warmoths with my own wiring schemes. I ordered a couple of customs. I was proud to be prepared for anything that could be thrown at me. Twelve string? Sure. Electric sitar? Yes! Whether I really needed many of these tools was rather questionable.
I have long since refined my tastes and my collection, but I still have a room full of iconic instruments. I keep them because they are great examples of their kind, and I get in moods to play them. They represent periods in my development as both a guitarist and a music fan. When I do play them, I think of certain artists or time periods, whatever musical associations they hold for me. I play each one in a style that is reminiscent of those associations. But I don’t necessarily hear them as “my” voices, even though I can speak on all of them. Some are close to my natural voice. Others make me feel like I’m posing.
Then there are two or three guitars that, for some reason, I relate to intuitively in a different way. I don’t feel like I’m in a stylistic or historical box when I play them. I don’t feel like I have to play a certain type of music, or avoid a certain type of music. I play my original compositions or learn new songs more readily. My interaction with the guitar is more neutral, unbiased. It’s me and the instrument and whatever lies ahead to be discovered. These are the ones I would take with me if someone says, “Hey, bring your guitar.”
Looking back, I genuinely don’t think I overlooked this phenomenon during the journey. I don’t think it was right in front of my eyes earlier but I ignored it. I think it truly took this long to get here, and it took a certain amount of luck, too. How about you – are you on that quest? Are you there yet?
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11-30-2015 02:39 PM
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Re: guitars----a LOT of aural ground can be covered by judicious adjustment of EQ knobs...on the guitar....on the amp. No need for a different guitar, necessarily.
What can't be changed by altering these settings can often by done with a different amp. or a pedal, changing picks or going fingerstyle, or different string gauges.
Let's put it this way---if you want to become a tele-god doing hot country picking, then a proper tele will help you...but the back pu of a semi-hollow can still get you within the ballpark, at least while you're learning that style.
Finally, an excessively "big" tone---which generally means a lot of coloration----is sometimes wearying to listen too...for extended practice. Sometimes I think a more neutral tone, often on a cheaper instrument, can be just as good, if not better, to practice with. When I took some lessons with Peter Mazza, his prize guitar was a Super V, but for everyday practice his Heritage 535, is what he played more often. I once asked him about this, and he said that sometimes the Super V was just "too much" hr. after hr.Last edited by goldenwave77; 11-30-2015 at 03:18 PM.
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RP, Great Post.
When I was playing rock and popular music, I wanted 2 sounds. The Santana sound and the sound of Jay Graydon's Guitar on the Al Jarreau hit "Mornin". I nailed the Santana Sound on pretty much every guitar owned. The Jay Graydon sound has eluded me forever. If you put Jays guitar in my hands, there is no way I could sound like him. There are others who can sound the same, Paul Jackson Jr. comes to mind. I wish I could have sounded that way. I am not a percussive enough picker. During my time with Silk, they also wanted me to sound like that. I tried and tried. I've given up. Its just not in my hands.
As for Jazz playing, because I go for more of the Solo Chord Melody stuff, warmth and sweetness is the sound I crave. You can get warmth on just about any archtop guitar but I am not good enough to deal with constantly having to chase it. The Heritage D'Angelico New Yorker I have plays warm and sweet without me even trying. Anywhere on the neck, its there.
By the way, GW77, Peter Mazza is one of the best Guitarists I've ever heard. Lucky you.
Joe D.
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while i had a somewhat specific and circuitous path to where i am now, after a certain point i learned how to sound like myself. and from that point forward, i just sounded more and more like me, regardless of what i was playing or playing through. whether i like it or not, i'm all i'm going to be.
as for what i play, that's a little odd. i learned to play on my old man's classical and then got recruited to jam along with a couple of friends in various thrash metal outfits, which later because various spanish rock and new wave kind of things. as we got older and my friends drifted off i started playing acoustic stuff again. to fill the songs and pass the time, i picked up the drums and bass.
from that point, what i had known and learned (big sounds, huge strings, low tunings, odd right hand techniques) sort of coalesced and i started to put the pieces together. i realized i wanted guitars that had air in them. semi hollows. the full hollows. i found i liked to combine acoustic phenomena like air, overtones, larger strings and a lot of string tension in a more electric way, on electric guitars played fairly loud. then i figured out what amps i liked and what effects to tie it all together and here we are. i'm generally somewhere in between the extremes, but i can reach out in either direction as needs dictate.
took a long ass time, though. :/
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When Lester Young first became know to a larger jazz public, everyone thought of his smooth sound as a defect and tried to teach him to play like Coleman Hawkins. Fletcher Hendersons wife was one (later in life, in an interview, he called her "that bitch" because she insisted that he had to change his sound). He tried for a while - experimented with mouthpieces and reeds - but to no avail. He simply couldn't do it and decided to keep playing his own way. And we all know how great and groundgreaking that was.
When Charlie Parker had just arrived in New York with Earl Hines' band (where he played tenor sax), he was jamming at Clark Monroes Uptown House when Ben Webster entered the room, listened and then went up to the bandstand and tore the horn out of Parkers hands saying gruffly: "That horn ain't supposed to be played so fast!". But later that night he told everyone who cared to listen: "I just heard this guy. He'll make everyone go crazy with his tenor." The funny thing is that Parker never bonded with the tenor, found it too big and only played it because that was the vacant chair in the Hines band - but he still made that impact with it.
One should shure stay true to "ones voice" - when one has found it. That's not to say that one should not emulate idols when learning. Lester emulated Franky Trumbauer early on. Charlie Parker emulated Rudy Vallee as a teenager and later Buster Smith - and of course Lester was also a big inspiration. Jimmy Raney told a funny story at a "clinic" (the video is on YouTube somewhere). Raney had suggested that a young student went home and learned some soloes by another famous musician verbatim. The youngster had refused, because he wanted to stay true to his own "inner voice". Raney had then replied: "What do you mean? Your inner voice? But man, you can't play!".Last edited by oldane; 11-30-2015 at 04:57 PM.
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I'm trying to get the point where my playing dictates my tone, on whatever guitar...I think I'm getting closer.
I like guitars, all kinds...so it's important for me that my tone come from within...well, that and some nice ambient reverb
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Some of the early tones that blew me away in my impressionable teen years were:
Alex Lifeson of Rush, Signals & Grace Under Pressure - lots of chimey, ambient chords on a Strat
Al Di Meola, Cielo e Terra - dissonant, virtuosic, Ovation acoustic drenched in reverb
Pat Metheny, the first PMG album and First Circle - smooth, lightly chorused ES-175
Boon Gould of Level 42, A Physical Presence live album - clear, clean funk on a Les Paul
And as it turns out, a mangled but matured blend of all four can still be heard in my sonic personality, all these years later! You will note that only one is recognized as a jazz artist, and even he - Pat - rejects genre labels. So I've approached jazz all my life from a non-traditional, hybrid direction. To be fair, jazz has informed my music, not defined it.
I love many traditional jazz tones, though. My ear loves the L-5CES tone that is ubiquitous in smooth jazz, and with that actual guitar in hand, copping those tones is effortless. Yet it is somehow unsatisfying, because I'm aping someone else. It is wonderful, and yet totally unoriginal at the same time. I could give many examples of that phenomenon.
Joe D. is on target when he talks about his D'A playing warm and sweet without even trying. The key is in finding such a guitar that matches both the sound you want, and the ergonomics that allow you to play freely and expressively.
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The instrument/amp/fx informs how I play. And that's how I like it
OTOH, the Tele and the Gypsy guitar are the instruments that I speak best with.
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Finding ones tone is a noble quest, at times foolish and always expensive.
Like a lot of people, I admired famous players styles and sound and I would buy the type of guitar they used to get near that ideal that was in my head, Strats, Teles, LP's and ES335's. Now I find I can emulate styles and sounds and newbies are impressed. But I felt I was just going through the motions and playing by numbers, nothing special.
But what was my sound and style?
My first proper archtop was an old Framus made Zenith. The neck was twisted and I paid too much for it but that didn't matter as it had the sound, all I needed was chops and technique-that took time and effort.
Next proper jazz guitar was a hand made Selmer Macafferri. That was a real doozy. It gave me a heavy pick attack and simpler technique. But two things drove me to sell it. The high tendon tension required to fret chords on an acoustic with a way fat neck and the fact it was soooo bloody valuable I felt it owned me. I left an indent on the soundboard and I was really naffed off with myself. It had to go as I moved on and the guitar became impractical to own.
A brace of Tanglewood thinline hollow jazzers with low action was a breeze to play but I soon found the short string length meant my fat fingers would struggle for close voiced chords.
The Tanglewoods started me on my some what amateur improvisational self expression as well and I'm thankful for that.
Then came a Yamaha P90 semi which could be pressed into all types of styles and colours. I had flats with a plain 3rd and I was starting to get closer to the perfect guitar tone. This guitar became Revelation 1.
What do I mean by 'Became Revelation 1'? For me it's when you get a guitar that plays well, all the woods add up to that 'something' and a little tweaking with the playability and electronics leads to your sound and your guitar.
I needed a longer string scale and I was in the market for a proper mid priced jazz box to fill this gap but finding a guitar off the shelf was proving to be hard.
Then I found 'Revelation 2'. Of all things it is a Squier J Mascis Jazzmaster! Long scale 43mm nut width, P90's, tremolo, jazz type phat rhythm circuit and twangy Rock and Roll sound. This guitar was a real facepalm moment. All I thought was 'Where have you been all my life?'. It's my go to guitar for my latest music project. It covers all the pop tunes.
Then I started to obsess over a solid bodied jazz guitar so I drew up some plans and then started trawling ebay for a suitable donor guitar and I suppose I was really lucky but I found 'Revelation 3', a Squier Classic Vibe Tele Custom.
Now this guitar is the 'One'. I'm fishing for a decent bridge pickup at the moment but with the CC pickup in the neck I feel there is no impediment to me finding that chord, that note and that feeling.
Is the journey over? No, c'mon.
'Blondie' came to me for my 50th birthday (no, not what you think). An Epiphone Emperor Regent in natural. She's not quite at 'Revelation 4' status yet, do a search on the Gizmo section on my set up and work to make her play as she should. There will be a pickup swap in 2016 and then she'll be there.
But going back to Revelation 1 I finally got him back from my son. I plugged him in and proceeded to rip it up. It's like an old friend with a warm hand shake welcoming you with a glass of 'JD' with a promise of high jinx. This was the first guitar that spoke to me (ooer, Jazzbow's gone all weird).
I guess that for me I know a few things that work for me which narrows the field down considerably.
If I walk into a guitar shop that has a guitar that ticks all the boxes I will turn around and run like bloody f**k!!!!!
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Now, this, here, is a thread. Roger--thanks! (Nice initial post, too.)
Finding the guitar that "fits" and sounds "right" is a sometimes short quest, but more often a very long one. Frequently, your own tastes evolve as you grow and search, grow and search.
At 15, I was playing a Hagstrom I with flatwound strings. I played a little rock, but mainly jazz and blues because of the influences of my guitarist parents. The "Hag" through a small Teisco tube amp, then a Fender Deluxe Reverb was capable of getting the sounds I sought--from pop, to rock, to Verve-era, jazz-lite Wes.
At 18, I was playing a Gretsch CA6120 "Nashville" into a Teisco Professional tube amp (50 watts/2-EL-34s/2x12" speakers). I was covering everything from Chet to Rock to a bit more sophisticated jazz than the Verve stuff noted above. I swapped my Nashville for a stereo and the stereo for a SG Custom. Ditched the SG and got a sweet '65 Stratocaster. Kept that until I got my first Telecaster. That guitar was the first guitar that completely "fit" me and got THE sound that I was after. I played it primarily through a blackface Vibro-Champ that was my dormitory amp in college. That guitar, though, sounded great through ANY amp. However, I swapped it even for a '68 Stratocaster when I was 20. The '68 was the best Stratocaster I ever played or heard. I owned it until last year.
It and my '38 Gibson L-50 with a De Armond were my main guitars for the next half-dozen years...until I went Gibson. First, I picked up a '60-'62 ES-125T that played and sounded perfect for jazz despite its small size. Sold it about ten years later.
In my mid-20s, I picked up a '68 Gibson ES-175 that I parted with last year. This, until I bought a '75 ES-335 about 15 years back, was my number one guitar.
Frankly, I'd still be playing the 175--it gets "the sound." However, I bought a Super Eagle last year from Patrick and fell hard for big, carved body guitars. This year, I acquired a 17" all-carved Unity 100th-anniversary Custom guitar. The workmanship, woods, etc., are spectacular. The sound, both acoustically and electrically are as good as the looks. This guitar is "it," at this point. The neck is HUGE. This lets me be "me," without much conscious thought. Ideas just seem to flow. It is the archtop equivalent to the boatneck Nash Strat that I play. That neck style just works, for me.
From the Hagstrom I to the Unity it has been a long, somewhat expensive road. I think it has hit the cul-de-sac though. Just gonna park and enjoy now. Along the way, I have had opportunities to own many iconic guitars. (My best friend is a vintage collector; he leaves very interesting guitars at my house for months at a time.) As much as I have wanted a L-5CES, I have always found reasons to pass on the ones that I sampled. I do, however, wish that I bought my mentor's '39 blonde L5 with CC pickup when his son put it up for sale...D'oh.
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What a long, strange... expensive trip it's been!
Originally Posted by Greentone
Along the way you acquire guitars you are fascinated with. Regardless of how these work out ultimately, you want to love them. You want that because they are romantic - you imagine yourself taking on a certain personality when you play them. You enjoy the association of you and that guitar. At least I do.
Sometimes that totally works out, but more often it doesn't. Often the celebrated guitars are awesome indeed, but they don't really, truly match you. You enjoy playing them, but they are not your ideal musical speaking voice. If you are more a player than a collector, that bubbles to the surface eventually and irks you. The itch comes back, and the quest continues.
More likely, something far more pedestrian or less celebrated in the marketplace ends up being your near-perfect match. I fancy myself an L-5 guy and I have four of them, different styles from different vintages. But I'm finding that the humble ES-175, albeit the right ES-175, may very well be my perfect guitar. And that's the first archtop I went out in search of, twenty years ago. How frustrating is that??
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That is sooo true RP. The quest for the perfect Jazz Tele was an experiment to discover what works so that I would eventually call G&L to make me an ASAT for my 50th bday to the same specs as the humble Squier Tele I mentioned above. Originally Posted by rpguitar
Eventually I realised that the custom ASAT wouldn't be the same, just different. Besides I needed an excuse to fund a proper hollow body jazz guitar
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It's the same phenomenon that explains players like Scofield, Metheny, Benson, Stern, Kreisberg, etc. with their relatively plain factory guitars that have been mainstays on stage for literally decades. One thinks, "Geez, he could play any guitar he wants... why does he play that?" And the reason is, for him it just fits. And it is predictable, and it allows freedom of expression.
Of course, some guys have the same thing happen with a more intrinsically valuable or rare guitar, like Bernstein, Burrell, Pizzarelli, Vignola, or Lage.
At the end of the day, it's about the match, not the reasons why.
Some of us just need to get the curiosity and wanderlust out of our systems, so we try a million things. We keep challenging the premise that it might get better with the next one. The conclusion to our quest - if we ever reach it - is found only after a lot of trial and error. And that's a costly road to travel, however fun and enlightening it might be.
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Sounds sooo much like my experience with women...lol. Originally Posted by rpguitar
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It seems most of the iconic players were happy w/ one guitar once they found it. But now that we live in the consumer era we tend to have more guitars than we probably need. Also in fairness guitarists have to cover a lot more sonic territory than ever.
My problem is that guitars are also my hobby, ouch!
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I've always been constrained, either by money, space or both, so that has always limited my acquisitions and the extent to which I've actually gone on this journey. Within those constraints I've owned what most non-collectors (and wives) would think of as quite a few guitars (my peak was 6 guitars, 1 bass, and 4 amps at once). At some point it started to feel like a distraction from playing to have to think about which guitar I was going to use for which kind of music and adjust to different set-ups and string gauges.
So between that and space constraints (family of four in a modest-sized apartment), I've pared it down to the minimum I need for the music I make (mainly jazz and an electric Ford-ish blues/rock/r&b/fusion-ish hybrid, plus occasionally accompanying other people at whatever they do, and acoustic music of a couple of flavors). In electric guitars what I really "need" is instruments that work in multiple styles. Finding a semi that I really liked clarified this for me. I could get way with just the semi, but I like having a little variety, so I'm down to a semi and a Strat (I also just love the Strat and it would really hurt to part with it). Musically, financially, and spatially (closetally?) I can't justify more than this, so I focus on working with what I've got. Periodically, I try stuff out and think about another archtop, or a tele, or something with P-90s, or ... But then I go back to the logic that got me here -- keep things spartan for the sake of not drowning in stuff and not letting gear claim more neurons than music.
John
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Hmm... exciting stories. And ways to look at a guitar.
For me the different guitars are different "co-workers", different friends; they make me play a bit differently and they help me to see different aspects in music. Even my three Les Pauls are different!
Every guitar has a lesson or a story to tell me. That's why I don't believe there is 'just my guitar'. So far I have more or less "got used to play them" rather than found some magical artefacts.
For me the talk about "somebody's own style" is a bit music theoretical question. I play the way I play, I don't think it is my duty to analyse it. I think my own style only when I want to break it (the old maneurs) and learn to play in a different way. That means everyday!
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During my bass playing days I had lots!
'69 Precision, 80's Jap Squier Jazz Bass, '70's Guild B301, '70's Mustang bass, '79 Ricky 4003, Manson Kestral fretless.
Everyone would say why so many basses? In the end a bass just goes 'B'doo boom'.
Not really.
I separated them by their core sound;
'69 Precision went 'Clanng, chakka b'dannng'
80's Jap Squier Jazz Bass went 'Nagga naagh naanng'
'70's Guild B301 went 'Brraanng bagga bhunng'
'70's Mustang bass went 'Bruddah bruhmmn brumm'
'79 Ricky 4003 went 'Brrimm brimm brrummmm'
Manson Kestral fretless went 'Wuhrrnng wurngg wuhh'.
Lol.
But mostly the Precision went out the most as it did everything I needed. The Guild was hated by bands and projects the most; funny, as I thought it sounded like the low end of a piano and was warm and punchy.
I sold all these wonderful basses before they were overpriced by collectors (damn) and my bass of choice now?
A Jap made Yamaha BB300. As good as the '69 precision and can be bought for little money.
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RP, great post.
You know... I've been a member of this forum for three years and threads like this are one of my many reasons for reading here. The insights to playing, guitars, and the other parts of the "system" (which is what it is) are staggeringly different but seem to gel at the same time.
I love guitars, all kinds, always have, always will. Seeing and hearing a smokin SG, Heritage, Gibson or other and no criticism of the brand (with few exceptions on family history) is remarkable. Other forums would do well to emulate the class and tolerance I have witnessed here.
I too have a number of "iconic" gits that I play as frequently as possible (a bit more now that I retired) and like many of the guitars acquired in my more refined taste of a 30 watt genre I have four or five faves. Like a small harem, all get played with frequently :-0
I'm more a song writer and collector than a refined player and by good fortune my faves are mine. To answer your question, my "quest" has been realized, that being to have the tools I want, to do what I need to continue writing tunes.
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I must have been a bit lucky, I didn't have much of a 'quest'. I got into jazz in my last year at university, so by the time I graduated and got a job (and some money at last!), I was itching to buy a decent jazz guitar (I only had an Ibanez solid body at the time). The only jazz guitar I'd heard of was the Gibson 175, so I saved up my first few months wages, found the nearest guitar shop which had one, tried it, and bought it. I think this was around 1982.
And that's the same guitar I still use. It's not the best 175 in the world, it's a mid-70s Norlin one, but it sounds good and the neck, frets and fingerboard seem to suit my hand perfectly. I've occasionally played other jazz guitars and they felt awkward by comparison.
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What was it that T.S. Eliot said: "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." Originally Posted by rpguitar
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I'm in a similar position, after many other guitars, from L5s downwards. I bought a butchered, electrified '58 L4 in the mid seventies. About 100 guitars later, I'm still looking at it. Currently my other electric arch top is an ES350t, which in many ways is a superior guitar and which produces a tone which other players remark on, and which I am using most of the time now. But I have a strong feeling that the L4 is the one I'm contracted to play; I have internalised its sound so much - or rather, my sound playing it- that it feel like a reference point. Romanticised post-rationalisation, no doubt. Originally Posted by grahambop
And of course, one could say the same about any other decent instrument that one has got used to; maybe it's simply a question of habit. But I have to say that the idea of sticking with one main guitar is very appealing. Cuts down on maintenance, for one thing. And insurance...And you avoid the 'options anxiety' of which one to play...
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