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Although I principally play tweed Fender amps, these days, I will admit to a fondness for Joe Pass/Herb Ellis/Jim Hall/George Benson-era Polytone combo amps. I have written on the forum about my fondness for the Baby Brute/Teeny Brute, in particular.
Being someone who doubles on bass, however, I have always kept at least one Mini Brute III around. Well, my 70s (fuzz covered) MBIII is on the bench, and my 90s (blue Tolex covered) MBIII more or less now is in possession of my bass-playing son--who gigs it several days each week.
So, I picked up a comparatively rare early-80s black diamond Tolex covered Mini Brute III extension cabinet this week.
I am using it with my early-80s black diamond Tolex Mini Brute PA. It has the same pre-amp/power amp circuit as the Mini Brute IV, but with two additional channels (it is a PA, after all), and a negative feedback loop in/out switch that Polytone referred to as a feedback control switch.
With a guitar plugged into one of the reverb channels, this rig is--effectively--a Mini Brute IV. With a bass plugged into the reverb-less channel it is a MB III. Either way, it sounds like the jazz records of the 70s and 80s, when everybody was using the Polytone. Think Joe Pass or NHOP.
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11-28-2015 08:45 AM
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Polytone amps have the signature tone that we all chase after. They are right there for little money in most cases. You got a beauty GT, minimalist Maximus. I love it. I wish you lots of happy jazzin with it.
Polytone. One of my 1st amps and I'll probably pick one up as one of my last.
JD
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Congratulations, Greentone, on getting another fine amp, and kudos for the best early-hour groovy thread title!
In this part of the world PTs are mighty thin on the ground, so I have never actually seen or heard one, let alone played through one, a circumstance I hope to someday remedy, If I can somehow alter the space-time continuum in order to find a spare cubic foot or two to shoehorn one into the cave, here.
Enjoy your fine new dual ampsonality device! 
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Uh, not all of us. I always felt that the Polytone era of jazz guitar was a tonal low point.
Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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Am I correct if I say that Jimmy Raney also used these amps during his last two decades ? if so, I should also get one !!!
Congrats for your gear.
Cheers.
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Fred,
Raney used a Gibson ES-175 through a Polytone Mini Brute during the period that so many greats were using essentially that same guitar/amp combination. Later, he switched to a Hofner Attila Zoller Award guitar with a floating Zoller AZ Shadow 48 pickup. I think he was still using Polytone amps, but switched from the Mini Brute IV to a smaller Mini Brute. The clips I've seen look like he is using a II at that point.
Beebop Tom--plenty of guitarists would be in agreement with you. Among bassists there was even more of a split, even at the time. Back in the day there were two camps: (1) upright bassists who amplified their basses with the Mini Brute III, and (2) upright bassists who used the Galien-Krueger Micro Bass 112. Later on, many of these folks migrated to the AI Contra. The big breakthrough, however, came when we could leave our Ampegs at home and use the Mini Brute.
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I don't want to steal the thread but I would like to hear some specification about jazz guitar eras: which eras would You feel are the higher or highest points? Originally Posted by Bebop Tom
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It's funny, I think Polytone's are great sounding amps, but I don't like many famous recordings of them, Joe and Herb especially.
Joe's and Herb's older tones, through a tube amp, like Joy Spring or Ellis in Wonderland?...divine.
But if Raney was playing a Polytone during the 80's, it sure did sound great.
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mr. beaumont:
Not even Herb Ellis/Joe Pass "Two for the Road?" I certainly agree with you about "Joy Spring" and "Ellis in Wonderland." Those are two of my favorite recordings by anybody. However, the playing (especially the interplay) and the tone on "Two for the Road" (Pablo Records/1974) is perhaps my favorite guitar record of all time. It may not stand up against the Village Vanguard albums from 1962 by the Bill Evans Trio, or Evans/Hall "Intermodulation," (1966) but for a guitar record it is super.
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I like the Amp, Greentone. I picked up a MB IV in a deal with a Heritage Eagle and love it. Great find.
Keep on playin
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I love the playing on 2 for the road, hate the tone. Dry and one-dimensional. Totally unworthy of the great playing. Originally Posted by Greentone
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Ah, I see. Both players recorded without reverb. It's like you are sitting in the studio with them, right in front of their chairs. In my 20s, I started playing with less and less reverb--finally none--after listening to this album. The sound of my ES-175 through my Polytone Baby Brute really nailed this sound.
One's preference for sound is inherently subjective, but I really reacted positively to the sound of "Two for the Road." By comparison, I loved the playing of guys like Metheny and Scofield at the time--but just hated their swirly, time-processed tones. I thought, at the time, "lose the effects, guys."
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I'm fine with no reverb, but the tone is dry and brittle, and 100% electric. Sounds like they'really plugged straight into the board.
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have to agree with mr beaumont here. dry doesn't have to mean bad, but it does in this case. the guitars are just... there. they may as well be di'ed, because there isn't there. no space, no ambiance, no tone. even though i'm not feeling the amp, it probably sounded ok live in the room, but this almost like listening to a midi file. huge disservice to the playing. recording is just as big (and difficult) art as playing and either someone botched it or was told to do so by someone that should have been ignored.
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I agree Two For The Road would not win a lot of awards for guitar tone. Virtuoso is even worse. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I had Polytone at one point but I made a mistake of buying 15" one that thing was hard to tame when cranked.
Later I bought 10" Evans (older 150W reverb model) - quite a bit brighter amp than Polytone - especially with floating pickup archtop. Polytone was easier in that respect - with Evans there is no hiding - every tiny imperfection of your playing is just there.
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I would not be at all surprised if many of the Pablo albums were DI'd. Several sound that way. I used to DI my 175 to the board and thought it sounded pretty good.
mr. beaumont and I may be getting to some true differences in sonic preferences, I think. My favorite tones run to the 50s/60s tones of Tal Farlow, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Freddie Green, etc. However, I also greatly enjoyed the tones that Hall, Raney, Ellis, Pass, and Farlow got in the 70s and 80s.
Top tone dog, for me, is Kenny Burrell--both back in the Blue Note days and continuing up to the present.
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Raney's the tone god for me. Never less than excellent, from the 50's til the end. "But Beautiful" is PERFECT traditional jazz tone, imho.
Burrell's on my short list too.
I like a lot of wetter, modern sounds too...Hekselman, Lund, Moreno.
Metheny's new sound is awful.
For dark/dry, I really like a lot of Jim Hall's tones.
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I think I enjoy all of Raney's work, but particularly his stuff done with the Hofner AZ Award guitar. The combination of the carved spruce top and floating Shadow 48 Zoller pickup sounds great in Raney's hands...better, I think, than his ES-175 or ES-150 work. It's all great though.
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Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
I played two mini brutes from the eighties into the nineties, thought they were very "forgiving" but therefore not so accurate. When i switched to Mark III Boogies in the mid nineties there was no way to go back anymore because i felt that the Polytones lacked dynamics. Will have to try a Polytone again one of these days to see how it feels now that i'm used to Aer and Acoustic Image Clarus amps.
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Back in the 90s I was in a jazz trio--piano, guitar, upright bass. We had a room full of Polytones, a Baby Brute, a Mini Brute III, and a Mini Brute PA. Anyway, one time Mothers of Invention/Captain Beefheart slide guitarist, Denny Walley came to visit my bassist. He played his vintage Danelectro guitar through the blue Tolex Mini Brute III we had.
I was shocked that Walley got his sound through that rig. No pedals...just straight into the III. He got a great, compressed, sustained, just over the edge of breakup tone. I had never heard this sound come out of that amp. The amp sounded warm and tubey. I checked to see if the drive control was in play. Nope. Walley was just hitting the preamp aggressively at a high volume, with the master at a lower setting. Dead simple.
I played with him, but I felt like a dope trying to contribute much to the musical conversation with a guy THAT facile with the blues idiom. He convinced me, though, that the humble MBIII could be used way beyond its envisioned applications.
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cool!! all things walley
Forgotten Heroes Denny Walley | Premier Guitar
cheers
ps- he (walley) favors a Vinnie Bell-endorsed Danelectro Bellzouki model 7020 from 1965—a 12-string with a bouzouki-shaped body. Walley installs only six strings and usually tunes to an open A or G, using a capo to play in other keysLast edited by neatomic; 11-29-2015 at 07:53 PM. Reason: ps-
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Walley is a great guitarist. He can also sing like you would not believe.
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Some of my favorite tones would be early 60's Wes when he was probably using a humbucker L5 but perhaps a tweed amp. Examples would be the tunes "James and Wes" and "Tear it Down," as well as many other Verve recordings of Wes. After that, George Benson's "Billie's Bounce," which is probably a blackface Fender, is a favorite tone. So I guess I am an early 1960's jazz guitar tone guy. I will take 1950's Burrell tone anytime as well. Tube amps, regardless. I own a Polytone that I use as a backup, but that is not my kind of tone at all. Listen to Joe Pass on the For Django album and compare that to his Polytone recordings. Nuff said.
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a great jazz tone is just about anything cut at van gelders...why?? cause you didn't bring your amp (tho seldom a jazzer did to any studio!!)..vg had his studio amp set up, neumann mic'd to his standards..you plugged your guitar in and played..
till the death of ny studio jazz & session scene in the mid 80's.. the old midtown studios were still using ampeg b15 fliptops for bass..
only the rock acts were allowed the luxury of hauling in their acoustic 150 stacks..and not into those jazz studios..thats why the rock & roll studio emerged!!
it was a different era..hard to comprehend by todays standards if you didnt witness it yourself
cheers
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Burrell sounds always great. Originally Posted by Bebop Tom
This must be asked hundreds of times but what amp did Joe Pass use on Django? And what would be his typical Polytone album?
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